I get dropped by old dudes wearing hi-vis vests and campy dayglo bodysuits

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cookietruck
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I get dropped by old dudes wearing hi-vis vests and campy dayglo bodysuits

i think an audax or rando bike would be pretty useful for me. anyone have one?
let's see it.
i'm talking a bike that can be used for light touring, will fit fenders and a rack, maybe two, and still has geometry that could be "raced".

kinda like...http://www.robertscycles.com/products.html
The Audax Series is based on a design created for long distance (100kms+) non-stop rides that can last for several days and nights. These bikes need to be light, fast and responsive, but their most important
quality is comfort for the long hours riders spend in the saddle. Mudguards and lights are a requirement for taking part in official Audax events, and since it's helpful to have the ability to carry some extra gear on such long rides, such bikes are often fitted with a rear rack. All the models in this range include mudguard and carrier
eyelets and two sets of bottle cage bosses.

like this perhaps...

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 14:52
Larry Winget
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I think this is pretty much the ideal style of bicycle. Full coverage fenders + sporty but predictable handling = sign me up.

My only complaint is people often get overly fussy and ornate with them. Attention to detail = cool. Frilly = bad.

The Pitbull of Personal Development®

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 16:08
conor
conor's picture

yeah, this is exactly what i'm looking for. unfortunately, i can't seem to find many prebuilts that i like. i might have my friend build one up for me when i get the money.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 16:13
Larry Winget
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conor wrote:
yeah, this is exactly what i'm looking for. unfortunately, i can't seem to find many prebuilts that i like. i might have my friend build one up for me when i get the money.

What have you looked at so far?

The Pitbull of Personal Development®

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 16:17
bward1028

i really want to do some epic touring on my xtracycle. might ride the 300+ miles home from college at the end of the spring semester.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 16:19
Elderbear
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This is the vision I have for my Schwinn, but it's obviously never going to meet the lightweight aspect of a true rando bike. It's comfy as all get out, though, and I plan on logging some big miles when the roads are a bit more rideable.

EDIT: That Weigle is the hotness. Not a great pic, but here's a Johnny Coast randonneuring bike that's also rather hot-

johnnyraja wrote:
This is the most pointless conversation ever had on a forum entirely devoted to pointless conversation.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 16:19
Elderbear
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Woah - a little research led me to the fact that this Johnny Coast fellow is building rando frames for Velo-Orange.

More about it here

I'm now having flashbacks of the "classy bikes" thread, but that's okay. Rando bikes are sexy as it gets.

johnnyraja wrote:
This is the most pointless conversation ever had on a forum entirely devoted to pointless conversation.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 16:27
Larry Winget
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I liked Bilenky's tarck-ass rando bikes at 2008 NAHBS

Also, Ira Ryan is killin' it.

The Pitbull of Personal Development®

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 16:32
pixieshatintruck
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should i get yamaguchi to build me a rando bike

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 16:33
tjayk
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dooktruck wrote:
should i get yamaguchi to build me a rando bike

yes.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 16:40
mander
mander's picture

I'm randonizing my crosscheck although i doubt it will ever be as light as a real randonneuse. I guess you would call what i want it to be a light tourer. A VO front rack + dynohub generator lights are currently in the works.

Like some other posters i don't like how frilly some randonneur bikes can get. But i like how lots of the bikes that actually get used in randonnees manage to be nice looking and all-business at the same time. Like this one:

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 16:44
Elderbear
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I was just reading about Emily O'Brien (the woman who rode that bike in PBP 2007) here last night. Crazy, inspiring stuff.

johnnyraja wrote:
This is the most pointless conversation ever had on a forum entirely devoted to pointless conversation.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 16:51
Captain Gnarlock
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how different is rando geo from old-school race geo? (i.e., not compact frame, i'm thinking '80s steel).

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 17:26
bigmatt

The Ira Ryan pics are sweet. I am wondering how the geometry compares between the Rando bikes and a full on touring bike. A lot of the specs on paper seem to be similar. The problem I can see with the real Rando bikes is price. They are all coming out off small custom frame builders and that means expensive. I built a bike for myself is in that style. I took a 83' Nishiki Seral touring bike slapped on some 700c wheelset and switched it to a 8 speed STI drivetrain. I have added a rear Surly Nice rack and a Blackburn Mountain front rack and some PB fenders since the pic was taken. It had cross tires on it in the pics, but now sports 700c X 32 Panaracer Paselas. The Blackburn front rack only was added for a better location for my generator hub powered headlight. It was my commuter and my most ridden bike this year. I am sure it would be great for a light touring trip. I would love to find another touring frame/fork to build up with a 3 speed fixed S3X rear hub and another Shimano generator front for fixed commuting/touring.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 17:32
cookietruck
cookietruck's picture

i think generally speaking the audax or rando bike should be close to road bike geometry.
you can't go too steep on the head angle or short with fork rake because of the front fender and toe overlap.

edit: in reply to kowloon.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 17:32
Tail Hook Lengthener
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mander wrote:
I'm randonizing my crosscheck although i doubt it will ever be as light as a real randonneuse. I guess you would call what i want it to be a light tourer. A VO front rack + dynohub generator lights are currently in the works.

This is kind of what I've built my Cross-Check up as. I think that the CC/LHT fill most if not all of the requirements of what constitutes a randonneuring bike, and are a whole lot more affordable. In fact, if you look at VO, among their lugged stuff, they're selling what amounts to an over-priced custom Cross-Check (TIG-welded 4130 steel with some braze-ons and clearance for wide tires) in the form of their Pass Hunter.

It's awesome, but you could buy a $400 Cross-Check frame and powdercoat or wet paint it any color you want for a fraction of this price, and you get the added benefit of the vastly superior threadless system with Surly.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 17:33
mander
mander's picture

Bonechilling, do you have a pic of your crosscheck? Im looking for ideas to shamelessly bite.

Bigmatt, same goes for you if you have bigger pics posted anywhere.

I'm agreed on the crosscheck being pretty damn good for a cheap randonneuring bike. For my purposes (LD rides with some dirt roads and rail trails) mine has been great.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 17:45
Tail Hook Lengthener
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Here it is. I don't think I've done anything worth ripping-off, just a basic black bike that I ride to work every day.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 17:53
halbritt
halbritt's picture

kowloon wrote:
how different is rando geo from old-school race geo? (i.e., not compact frame, i'm thinking '80s steel).

I've heard that these folks make rando bikes. Here's their geometry chart:

http://www.rivbike.com/images/static/up ... Charts.pdf

72-ish degrees of HT and ST angle and rake between 45mm and 55mm. Bridgestone racing bikes from back in the day are in the 74-ish degrees of HT and ST angles with 45-55mm of rake.

Rando bikes are a bit slacker than true racing bikes like the Bridgestone 700, but there are a world of slacker bikes from that period with a bit heavier tubing more suited to the task of randoneurring.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 17:57
mander
mander's picture

bonechilling wrote:
Here it is. I don't think I've done anything worth ripping-off, just a basic black bike that I ride to work every day.

Nice. What rack is that?

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 18:13
Tail Hook Lengthener
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It's a vintage Blackburn. I actually replaced it with another Blackburn rack that I pulled off a bike destined for the trash, so I wouldn't have to jury-rig the connection between the rack and the frame itself.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 18:18
bigmatt

mander wrote:
Bigmatt, same goes for you if you have bigger pics posted anywhere.

Just for you I snapped some current pics.

Big Picture 1
Big Picture 2
Big Picture 3

The only problem with the linked Rivendell geometry is its for the Bleriot, a 650B bike. From the pics on this page it looks like everyone is rockin' 700c wheels so its kinda apples->oranges.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 18:28
halbritt
halbritt's picture

bigmatt wrote:
The only problem with the linked Rivendell geometry is its for the Bleriot, a 650B bike. From the pics on this page it looks like everyone is rockin' 700c wheels so its kinda apples->oranges.

It's a PDF, you'll probably want to page down to the A.Homer Hilsen or the Atlantis on pages 3 and 4 respectively. They're probably most appropriate as a lightweight rando or audax bike.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 18:58
bigmatt

halbritt wrote:

It's a PDF, you'll probably want to page down to the A.Homer Hilsen or the Atlantis on pages 3 and 4 respectively. They're probably most appropriate as a lightweight rando or audax bike.

Oops, epic fail on my part. The specs don't seem that different from the quick and dirty measurements of my Seral. Looking at the AAH and Atlantis geometry many of them are extremely close to the Surly Long Haul trucker. The cross check is pretty close except for shorter chain stays and less bottom bracket drop.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 19:14
mander
mander's picture

bonechilling wrote:
It's a vintage Blackburn. I actually replaced it with another Blackburn rack that I pulled off a bike destined for the trash, so I wouldn't have to jury-rig the connection between the rack and the frame itself.

Ah I see. I can't get the Blackburn knockoff on my Crosscheck anywhere near level. I see you have an easier time with yours because it's a smaller frame and so the seatstays aren't as steep.

Thanks for the pics bigmatt! I'm still trying to figure out whether i actually need the VO front rack or whether something cheaper and less fancy frenchy will do. That rack you're running looks solid.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 19:19
Rusty Piton
Rusty Piton's picture

My god, this thread has been refreshing.
My SRAM bits came in the mail today, so soon my ccheck will be getting the rando/tourer treatment as well.
Hooray!!!

emor wrote:
Bicycle commuting is the worst way to get anywhere except for all the other ways.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 19:28
y
y's picture

Rando bikes are awesome. I want to reply to almost every post in this thread but wont so here's a bunch of things I have to say on the matter in no discernible order.

Randos are the most ultimate bikes ever and everyone should own one. If you're looking for one on the cheap, keep an eye out for 70's and 80's touring bikes. For reasons unknown to me, touring bikes were generally more "light duty" back then and most would make great candidates for new wheels/ drivetrain. Due to their lack of "prestige", they're also a lot cheaper than the racers of the era but watch out since a lot of them have 27" wheels.

Vanilla and Ira Ryan make my favorite randonneurs today and René Herse and Alex Singer are the kings of the classic era. Take a look at their bikes before you get your own.

In case you missed it, the Official PBP 2011 thread may be found here.

The main differences in geometry between classic racing road bikes and randonneurs are: slightly slacker head angle with added fork rake to reduce the adverse effects on handling cause by weight carried on the front which also helps with toe overlap, lower bb, added tire clearance and longer chainstays.

All the bikes posted in this thread are nice and someone should resurrect the classy bike thread.

The first frame I build is going to be a randonneur.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 19:32
Captain Gnarlock
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Conversation Réelle.

Wed, 01/07/2009 - 19:37
Elderbear
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halbritt wrote:
72-ish degrees of HT and ST angle and rake between 45mm and 55mm. Bridgestone racing bikes from back in the day are in the 74-ish degrees of HT and ST angles with 45-55mm of rake.

Rando bikes are a bit slacker than true racing bikes like the Bridgestone 700, but there are a world of slacker bikes from that period with a bit heavier tubing more suited to the task of randoneurring.

Cool. If the geo charts in the old Schwinn catalogs, which I found here are correct, my '89 World has 72 head and seat tube angles and it seems perfectly suited to epic ride comfort with no front fender/toeclip interference and overall steady handling.

johnnyraja wrote:
This is the most pointless conversation ever had on a forum entirely devoted to pointless conversation.

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 02:09
halbritt
halbritt's picture

In addition to HT and ST angles, chain stay length will definitely make a difference in handling. There were a ton of bikes built in the 80s that had appropriate geometry. I used Bridgestone for comparison as a lot of the old catalogs are on Sheldon Brown's site for comparison. Also, both Rivendell and Bridgestone, Grant Petersen.... duh.

Just read this:
http://home.pacbell.net/donnk/rando/grr.html

Man, that sounds like fun.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 03:23
Matthew Trujillo

i liek mah peugeot

1982 peugeot princeton.

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 05:32
cookietruck
cookietruck's picture

wsn't that peugeot in some video with some dork doing alot of retarded and lame skids?

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 08:35
boneless
boneless's picture

I kinda wish my Karate Monkey was a Cross Check since it now has slicks, drops is getting fenders and hasn't seen any dirt lately.

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 08:42
TimArchyLime
TimArchyLime's picture

I've got this frame waiting for me at home. Well, not this bike, but the same frame in the same size. It came with 27's, but 700's work great. For some reason, the BB is super high. After converting to 700's, it was still as high as my track bike at the time. Unfortunately mine did not have the triple crank. It had been changed to a shitty double somewhere along the line. And the RD had been changed to a crappier short cage thing. I'm hoping to do a light touring build with it when I get back. Once, when I had them both torn apart, I compared it to my steel track frame (Fuji) and this one was lighter even though it was 3cm taller.

It got dropped off at the Co-Op. One of the benefits of volunteering there full time is that you sometimes get to grab something before anyone else sees it. I just happen to be the tallest person around at the time.

Snarky Varking wrote:
Tarckbike- Where mile 11 means you're on a long ride.

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 09:19
barba

I have an old Peugeot PNK-10 set up as essentially a Rando bike. It isn't as pretty as a frame made for the purpose, but it is great for long rides and bicycle camping. I'll try to post pictures later tonight. Good thread.

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 10:51
Larry Winget
Larry Winget's picture

Mariposa makes some badass bikes.



The Pitbull of Personal Development®

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 12:32
barba

Very nice, but I don't get that stem.

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 12:33
Elderbear
Elderbear's picture

Carbon shouldn't be allowed in this thread.

johnnyraja wrote:
This is the most pointless conversation ever had on a forum entirely devoted to pointless conversation.

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 12:39
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

I wouldn't want one of those threadless quill-looking stems for my bikes, but I can certainly understand why you'd want it on a classically styled yet modern bike like that.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 12:39
tjayk
tjayk's picture

barba wrote:
Very nice, but I don't get that stem.

looks like a 1" threadless stem with a unique steer tube clamping setup. the clamp is right above the headset, and there are no spacers... i like it.

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 12:45
Larry Winget
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Ebisu smiley

The Pitbull of Personal Development®

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 12:48
Larry Winget
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The Pitbull of Personal Development®

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 12:51
Larry Winget
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The Pitbull of Personal Development®

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 12:57
Elderbear
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That Jack Danier is so sweet... I remember seeing this pic a long time ago and being in awe of its toe bags.

Edit: Jack Taylor, eh...

johnnyraja wrote:
This is the most pointless conversation ever had on a forum entirely devoted to pointless conversation.

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 13:08
Larry Winget
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These are a little over the top, but Hetchins gets a pass.


The Pitbull of Personal Development®

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 13:08
Elderbear
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Jackass rear tire pressure on the second one... love the color combo on the first one, though.

johnnyraja wrote:
This is the most pointless conversation ever had on a forum entirely devoted to pointless conversation.

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 13:11
Larry Winget
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More info on the Jack Taylor. I am totally stalking this bike on the internets.

The Pitbull of Personal Development®

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 13:16
Larry Winget
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The Pitbull of Personal Development®

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 13:25
Larry Winget
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Baylis


The Pitbull of Personal Development®

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 13:31
halbritt
halbritt's picture

Elderberry wrote:
Carbon shouldn't be allowed in this thread.

Why not? We have a whole other thread for "classy" bikes. Please to be sucking on this:

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 14:21
Elderbear
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halbritt wrote:
Why not? We have a whole other thread for "classy" bikes.

I forgot which thread I was looking at... let the carbon flow, I guess.

johnnyraja wrote:
This is the most pointless conversation ever had on a forum entirely devoted to pointless conversation.

Thu, 01/08/2009 - 14:30

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