Motor cheater chat

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lofarkas
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Motor cheater chat

So there was a bit of hoopla when the first cyclist was caught with a motor hidden in the frame, but I don't think it was discussed here on tarck. IIRC the forum was down when the news broke, at least it didn't load for me.

She always denied the bike found in her depo with a motor in it was hers, but I for one don't buy the "my mechanics mixed up the bikes and thought the one I sold a year ago was mine" excuse. It seems that she realised no one is buying it, and decided to ragequit cycling before they ban her.
The story has also taken some even more peculiar twists. Turns out her brother was caught doping, and her father and brother stole expensive birds from a pet shop - and they were caught because the pet shop owner recognized them from the media coverage of the motor cheating debacle. All we are missing here is a connection to blood diamonds or a sexual scandal of some sort and we have material for half a season of a decent telenovela.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/van-den-driessches-friend-claims-ownership-of-motorised-bike/
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/van-den-driessche-stops-defence-against-mechanical-doping-charge/

Did Cancellara use one of these a few years back? Are the reptilians behind all of this? We owe it to tarckbear to speculate.

Mon, 03/14/2016 - 16:30
turpencat
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I would use one of these if it would keep me from getting sweaty on my way to work

johnnyraja wrote:
If you've never done it then yes, it's very surprising.

Mon, 03/14/2016 - 17:01
derrayyyvid
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would

Mon, 03/14/2016 - 19:44
Rusty Piton
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Oh I love that it's a whole family of scandalous thieving cheaters! That's just delicious!

emor wrote:
Bicycle commuting is the worst way to get anywhere except for all the other ways.

Mon, 03/14/2016 - 21:10
Andrew_Squirrel
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Crossing my fingers that more drama, cheating and scandals sneak their way into cycling until it goes full pro-wrastling.
How rad would it be to have a biathlon type race where the cyclists shoot drugs instead of targets?

Mon, 03/14/2016 - 21:17
rauce
rauce's picture

Two people much closer to the euro peloton than me or probably anyone else on this forum told me 3 years ago that there was no-way somebody hadn't won a major race while mechanically doping yet.

Mon, 03/14/2016 - 21:37
TimArchyLime
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Me and Seth got pushed up a hill by a 20mph wind yesterday. Must be what moto-doping feels like. You're still pedaling, but damn it's easy.

Snarky Varking wrote:
Tarckbike- Where mile 11 means you're on a long ride.

Mon, 03/14/2016 - 21:47
TimArchyLime
TimArchyLime's picture

I've been having flashes of a race where everyone on a team is allowed to use low power e-assist except for the team leaders. But only the team leaders can race for the win. The return of derny racing!

Snarky Varking wrote:
Tarckbike- Where mile 11 means you're on a long ride.

Mon, 03/14/2016 - 21:50
bobbythehawk
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(Reply to #8)

rauce wrote:
Two people much closer to the euro peloton than me or probably anyone else on this forum told me 3 years ago that there was no-way somebody hadn't won a major race while mechanically doping yet.

this sentence is confusing

Mon, 03/14/2016 - 21:53
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

It took me four or five passes to comprehend it.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Mon, 03/14/2016 - 21:59
Gary Fissure

Smok weeed, winthreds

mander wrote:
And what if the part is, like, just a nut? *huge bong rip*

Mon, 03/14/2016 - 22:03
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

I just remember how instantly dismissive we all were of the claims that Cancellara was using a motor to win Flanders. It seemed literally impossible, complete bullshit.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Mon, 03/14/2016 - 22:19
iwillbe
iwillbe's picture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ideiS-6gBAc

If you want to see a debate about as conclusive and well supported as that on planing, watch the recommended related videos. Conservation of momentum! The wheel hit the ground! Clearly a motor! Back and to the left!

All music is just the Eagles with different geometry.

Tue, 03/15/2016 - 01:09
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

Well that one is obviously total fucking bullshit. Where would a motor even fit in a Mavic hub? There's just no space in there.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Tue, 03/15/2016 - 01:23
biek

if not for a motor, how can that ryder h video be explained?

also holy shit @ how much the wheel flexes when it hits the ground

pappaheugwang wrote:
u mad bro?

Tue, 03/15/2016 - 01:34
lofarkas
lofarkas's picture
(Reply to #15)

bobbythehawk wrote:
rauce wrote:
Two people much closer to the euro peloton than me or probably anyone else on this forum told me 3 years ago that there was no-way somebody hadn't won a major race while mechanically doping yet.

this sentence is confusing

Rando hasn't been posting much and y'all are out of practice.

Tue, 03/15/2016 - 02:30
kmcdon
kmcdon's picture
(Reply to #16)

Wintage Townie wrote:
Well that one is obviously total fucking bullshit. Where would a motor even fit in a Mavic hub? There's just no space in there.

I believe that these mechanical dopers have the motor in the bottom bracket, driving the cranks rather than the hub.

I also didn't watch the video because I'm at work, so I could be way off base here.

Tue, 03/15/2016 - 08:00
Larry Winget
Larry Winget's picture

There's a GCN Youtube video where they test a motor-assisted road bike. In the example they tested cadence was limited by the motor and there was some definite mechanical noise that could be heard with the motor engaged. I'm sure if these are being used by the pros they're more sophisticated, but it still seems like it would take some planning to win a race on one. That said, if LA has taught us anything it's that ridiculously brazen cheating can work with the right planning.

I can definitely see some scenarios where motor assist could be a huge help without arousing much suspicion like putting domestiques on them for mountain stages, or even sprinters so they don't have to work so hard to make the time cut and are fresher for the next day.

The Pitbull of Personal Development®

Tue, 03/15/2016 - 10:16
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture

Exactly. I suspect the true use for motor cheating is not at the top of the group, but at the bottom, and with occasional judicious use. how nice would that be to have a way to help your team be better for the next day after a difficult stage which you can use to augment your hideously expensive and difficult to hide doping scheme that already is to the point of marginal gains.

Tue, 03/15/2016 - 11:25
lukasz
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Wind noise at 30 mph would totally mask the motor noise. Plus the follow cars, camera bikes, crowd cheering.

Tue, 03/15/2016 - 13:16
lofarkas
lofarkas's picture
(Reply to #20)

Larry Winget wrote:
There's a GCN Youtube video where they test a motor-assisted road bike. In the example they tested cadence was limited by the motor and there was some definite mechanical noise that could be heard with the motor engaged. I'm sure if these are being used by the pros they're more sophisticated, but it still seems like it would take some planning to win a race on one. That said, if LA has taught us anything it's that ridiculously brazen cheating can work with the right planning.

I can definitely see some scenarios where motor assist could be a huge help without arousing much suspicion like putting domestiques on them for mountain stages, or even sprinters so they don't have to work so hard to make the time cut and are fresher for the next day.

Good theory. Also, like doping in some sports, motor cheating might be more widespread at somewhat lower levels where controls are more lax and people have less to lose and perhaps more to gain (getting into the top tier). In this instance it was a junior national champion (or, if we believe her story, a training partner of hers who is an even less notable rider).

Tue, 03/15/2016 - 13:42
iwillbe
iwillbe's picture
(Reply to #21)

Wintage Townie wrote:
Well that one is obviously total fucking bullshit. Where would a motor even fit in a Mavic hub? There's just no space in there.

Ugh god did you totally not watch all the amateur videos "explaining" it? Or maybe Big Electromagnet got to you, too?!?!?!? In seriousness, though, I have no idea about any particular case. It's going to be interesting to review the last five years of racing once the telltale signs of motor doping are better understood, though.

All music is just the Eagles with different geometry.

Tue, 03/15/2016 - 14:14
Larry Winget
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Very possible motor noise is a non-issue in practice. If this is in fact widespread I'm curious about attitudes toward it in the pro peloton.

The Pitbull of Personal Development®

Tue, 03/15/2016 - 14:27
Rentable Faxmachine
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Tue, 03/15/2016 - 14:40
lofarkas
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(Reply to #24)

Rusty Piton wrote:
Oh I love that it's a whole family of scandalous thieving cheaters! That's just delicious!

I love this aspect. My guess is that dad is swimming in debt, grasping at whatever he thinks can bring in some cash, including pushing his offspring to win and go pro by any means possible. Well, he was. Crazy as he is, now even he probably realises that they overplayed their hand and no pro team will touch them with a ten foot pole after this.

Tue, 03/15/2016 - 15:31
lukasz
lukasz's picture

that thought gives pro teams way too much credit

Tue, 03/15/2016 - 16:28
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture
(Reply to #26)

kmcdon wrote:
Wintage Townie wrote:
Well that one is obviously total fucking bullshit. Where would a motor even fit in a Mavic hub? There's just no space in there.

I believe that these mechanical dopers have the motor in the bottom bracket, driving the cranks rather than the hub.

I also didn't watch the video because I'm at work, so I could be way off base here.

Well when you watch the video, you can see that the cranks don't spin.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Tue, 03/15/2016 - 21:27
rauce
rauce's picture

Magnets...

Tue, 03/15/2016 - 21:36
aerobear
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(Reply to #28)

Wintage Townie wrote:
kmcdon wrote:
Wintage Townie wrote:
Well that one is obviously total fucking bullshit. Where would a motor even fit in a Mavic hub? There's just no space in there.

I believe that these mechanical dopers have the motor in the bottom bracket, driving the cranks rather than the hub.

I also didn't watch the video because I'm at work, so I could be way off base here.

Well when you watch the video, you can see that the cranks don't spin.

no, the entire bike spins,.. which is what would happen if you held the cranks in place while a motor spun them, right?

i mean, i still don't buy it, but just sayin'

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Tue, 03/15/2016 - 23:07
hiljentaa
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(Reply to #29)

lukasz wrote:
Wind noise at 30 mph would totally mask the motor noise. Plus the follow cars, camera bikes, crowd cheering.

Whenever I watch clips of racing, this is always what strikes me. It's gotta be so fucking loud all throughout any given Tour stage.

Tue, 03/15/2016 - 23:18
Regulatori
Regulatori's picture

The motors are quiet. 150w at a push of a button.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w45tga8VbiQ

You can see her using it too.
Watch her climb. Like she's on a Sunday stroll...totally different body mechanics when compared to other riders.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AlvQJqkfpk&feature=youtu.be&t=3m10s

In this video you can see her back pedaling for a moment before the motor engages...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AlvQJqkfpk&t=11m53s

The whole story makes me laugh...especially about selling the bike to a friend a year earlier and he just happens to leave the bike in the pits (with the exact same saddle/stem height, parts, etc..)

Her family sounds like winners too...bro got caught doping. Dad was caught steeling parakeets (yes, really).
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/van-den-driessches-friend-claims-ownership-of-motorised-bike/

Quote:
A report on hln.be Tuesday says that Van den Driessche’s father, Peter, and brother, Niels, are facing criminal charges for trying to steal two expensive parakeets from the pet store De Gouldamandine in Varsenare. If convicted, they could receive prison sentences of between one and five years, and a fine of up to €3,000.

The store owner recognized the father/brother from the news.

Wed, 03/16/2016 - 04:49
liquify
liquify's picture

Yes, we read the family bit in the original post.

Wed, 03/16/2016 - 08:51
lukasz
lukasz's picture
(Reply to #32)

hiljentaa wrote:
lukasz wrote:
Wind noise at 30 mph would totally mask the motor noise. Plus the follow cars, camera bikes, crowd cheering.

Whenever I watch clips of racing, this is always what strikes me. It's gotta be so fucking loud all throughout any given Tour stage.

What also gets me is the exhaust smell. It is so interesting that it is such an artificial spectacle.

Wed, 03/16/2016 - 09:37
Regulatori
Regulatori's picture

I can't even imagine what it was like back in the day when everything was 2 stroke. That and the fact I'm sure those 2 cycle motorcycles were leaking oil on the track.

Wed, 03/16/2016 - 09:45
mander
mander's picture

I've been passed by plenty of e-freds with big, powerful bikes, and i don't recall ever hearing a motor.

Thu, 03/24/2016 - 23:04
Petr5
Petr5's picture

same. First time was up a 10% slope by a big fat guy at twice my speed and I was all wtf until the 2nd one went by and I took a good look.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
"Your bike sucks and we have a team of biased experts to pseudo-scientifically test that hypothesis, all in blue shirts."

Fri, 03/25/2016 - 07:24
Rentable Faxmachine
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Worst for me was a dude on an e-fat-bike. Sounded like a monster truck on the MUP cuz of the knobbies. Dude was soft-pedaling on a slight grade and still going 4-5 mph faster than me.

Fri, 03/25/2016 - 14:12
lofarkas
lofarkas's picture

A middle-aged lady on an e-assist bike overtook me on the last 200m of the climb to stelvio pass. I knew this could not stand so I busted my ass and re-overtook her... One of my finest cat6 victories, but I knew she could have smoked me on that thing without breaking a sweat.

Fri, 03/25/2016 - 18:37
buffoon
buffoon's picture
(Reply to #38)

lofarkas wrote:
A middle-aged lady on an e-assist bike overtook me on the last 200m of the climb to stelvio pass. I knew this could not stand so I busted my ass and re-overtook her... One of my finest cat6 victories, but I knew she could have smoked me on that thing without breaking a sweat.

Good job!

Lippy wrote:
a measured amount of muscle and hate when installing should keep that from happening.

Fri, 03/25/2016 - 18:50
kmcdon
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Mon, 04/18/2016 - 09:33
euclid
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Still isn't doping. Why say "mechanical doping" when "cheating" is much more succinct?

Mon, 04/18/2016 - 10:09
kmcdon
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(Reply to #41)

the world may never know

Mon, 04/18/2016 - 10:26
lofarkas
lofarkas's picture
(Reply to #42)

Hey it looks like I live in the epicentre of high end motor cheating!

article wrote:
The French TV station also sent a reporter to Budapest to meet with Istvan Varjas, a Hungarian engineer who allegedly supplies top professionals with electromagnetic wheels. Unlike cheating with heavy tube motors, moto-doping via electromagnetic wheels is much more subtle. A series of neodymium batteries are hidden inside the rear wheel, and a coil tucked away below the seat generates an induction force, which gets you 60 extra watts of power. The field is controlled via a bluetooth activator.
Varjas claims that the UCI’s current detection methods won’t pick up on in-wheel moto-doping, but eluding electromagnetic detectors comes at a price. A wheelset from Varjas costs north of €50,000, which is why elite riders are the only market.

The guy says the most advanced system has magnets in the wheel and coils in the seatsays. He says hesjedal's infamous spinning wheel after crashing was due to one of these, which is plausible to me.

Mon, 04/18/2016 - 12:07
lofarkas
lofarkas's picture

Here's another suspicious video a la hesjedal:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/motor-doping-speculation-video-223693

The wheel turns slower than I would expect from a motor but the way he hurriedly picks up the bike when he notices the wheel is spinning makes it look kinda suspicious. Probably just bumped the pedal against the ground as he laid it down.

Thu, 05/05/2016 - 07:44
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

It seems like that is just from him setting the bike down, though I guess a motor at the end of its battery life might be spinning a wheel like that. I was thinking he picked up the bike because he realized it was in the middle of the course. I hope so, at least.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Thu, 05/05/2016 - 09:14
Shortpants
Shortpants's picture

I have no doubt people are cheating with motors but that looked like he just realized it was bad etiquette. you can even see the bike slide when the weight is put down on the pedal and the frame shifts moving the drivetrain.

Thu, 05/05/2016 - 22:10
b-roll
b-roll's picture

I thought these cheater motors only worked by adding force when you are already pedaling. This is why I thought the bike spinning by itself videos were not very convincing. Clearly there are subtleties I'm not getting.

"Long story short: I'm stupid, but stupid like a fox."

Thu, 05/05/2016 - 22:18
lukasz
lukasz's picture

all cross racers are cheating because the wheels keep spinning when they shoulder their bikes.

you heard it here first.

Fri, 05/06/2016 - 12:34
kmcdon
kmcdon's picture
Fri, 05/06/2016 - 15:30
lofarkas
lofarkas's picture

http://www.corriere.it/sport/16_giugno_20/mistero-roglic-giro-d-italia-l-uci-non-controllo-bicicletta-dcd47008-3653-11e6-88d7-7a12a568ff47.shtml
http://road.cc/content/news/194249-mechanical-doping-suspicions-raised-over-giro-tt-stage-winner%E2%80%99s-bike-change

Apparently Luca Roglic, former ski jumper and novice pro rider won a TT in the Giro after having a last-minute "mechanical" on his bike and swapping it for an unexamined bike before the start. Unfortunately his bike computer fell of his bars during the ride so there are no wattage stats of his surprisingly fast ride. Hmmm.

The article also has some thermal camera video showing a very suspicious glow at the bottom of a seat tube of some unnamed rider and roglic riding with a glow in the rear hub area.

Mon, 06/20/2016 - 15:55