Babby, It's Cold Outside

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johnasavoia
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Seeing pictures of salty streets makes me cringe, they haven't happened here in Boston yet, but with snow probably coming Sunday its about to be salt town

Fri, 12/09/2016 - 18:53
Andrew_Squirrel
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TC: Seattle's liberal use of salt/deicer this year is partially the reason I didn't want to ride during the snow storm today.
Not saying I blame them for taking full advantage of the salt/deicer ban recently being lifted because it gets pretty crazy with the rare snow/ice storms. But damn, I was blown away how much they spread on the main corridors yesterday.
Excited for it to wash away with the next big rain storm.

Fri, 12/09/2016 - 19:17
wickedwagon
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Bozeman doesn't seem to plow residential roads, so salt isn't much of a thing unless you're on main roads

jordanpattern wrote:
BRING ME THE BINDERS OF WOMEN!

Fri, 12/09/2016 - 19:53
mdilthey
mdilthey's picture
(Reply to #354)

Andrew_Squirrel wrote:
TC: Seattle's liberal use of salt/deicer this year is partially the reason I didn't want to ride during the snow storm today.
Not saying I blame them for taking full advantage of the salt/deicer ban recently being lifted because it gets pretty crazy with the rare snow/ice storms. But damn, I was blown away how much they spread on the main corridors yesterday.
Excited for it to wash away with the next big rain storm.

They banned salt in all of VT for environmental reasons and they started using some kind of beet juice concentrate... I wish the rest of New England would switch over.

26/M/41t N/W

Fri, 12/09/2016 - 20:10
joy of vaping
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beet juice???? are the streets red?

Fri, 12/09/2016 - 20:19
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture
(Reply to #356)

Andrew_Squirrel wrote:
TC: Seattle's liberal use of salt/deicer this year is partially the reason I didn't want to ride during the snow storm today.
Not saying I blame them for taking full advantage of the salt/deicer ban recently being lifted because it gets pretty crazy with the rare snow/ice storms. But damn, I was blown away how much they spread on the main corridors yesterday.
Excited for it to wash away with the next big rain storm.

Dude, it was ridiculous. I had down Greenlake, and at some point, I had to just take the lane because the salt they spread had been pushed into the bike lane until it was a few millimeters deep.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Fri, 12/09/2016 - 20:33
b-roll
b-roll's picture

We're projected to get several inches over the weekend in Madison, and they have been pre-salting with brine solution all day. Interested to see if/how that works and if it's any better than the saltnado they usually put down during.

"Long story short: I'm stupid, but stupid like a fox."

Fri, 12/09/2016 - 20:42
mdilthey
mdilthey's picture
(Reply to #358)

joy of tarcking wrote:
beet juice???? are the streets red?

Apparently the stuff is called Beet Heet, and apparently VT uses brine instead of salt. I seem to remember a beet solution going into use at my old college, and the sidewalks were definitely pink.

26/M/41t N/W

Fri, 12/09/2016 - 20:49
euclid
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How is brine better than salt? It's just salt, with some water added.

Sun, 12/11/2016 - 16:26
mdilthey
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(Reply to #360)

euclid wrote:
How is brine better than salt? It's just salt, with some water added.

The combo w/ the beet juice results in massively less salt.

26/M/41t N/W

Sun, 12/11/2016 - 17:48
euclid
euclid's picture

I understand how beet juice might be better than salt, but how is brine better than salt?

Sun, 12/11/2016 - 18:47
emor
emor's picture

My guess is that it applies better, so the dosage is overall lower? Just guessing here.

"my main life goal is to have a dirtbag camper van with a bunch of bikes on it, go camping every vacation forever" -- me

Sun, 12/11/2016 - 19:32
Face
Face's picture

For all of you that don't live in frozen tundra, can we have some rain chat?

I've always just dealt with wet shoes and plastic bags over my socks. Works good enough if I can ride door to door but I'd rather ride the train for part of my commute than spend 2 hours pedaling in the rain. Anyone have any good luck with waterproof booties over mtb shoes? Bees wax waterproofing? I'd like to maybe not be squishing water out of my shoes every step I take in the train station.

Next issue, I've used regular winter cycling gloves treated with spray on DWR. Kinds sucks that it wears off on the palm after like 3 rides and the cuff of my gloves never really sheds water very well. I remember seeing something on here about some rubberized work gloves that some of y'all liked, or is there another option I'm not thinking about?

I'd prefer to not buy cycling specific rain gloves and shoes, if I can do this on a budget I'll be stoked. Total time I'll be spending in the rain is about 35-45 minutes each way.

Mr. Pubes wrote:
i fear that you are so lost in your own asshole that you may never be found again. do you have a flare gun? send for help.

Sun, 12/11/2016 - 19:44
jeffro
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(Reply to #364)

emor wrote:
My guess is that it applies better, so the dosage is overall lower? Just guessing here.

Yeah, the brine gets sprayed on evenly and dries. Rather than getting flung out of driving lines by vehicle tires, it tends to stayed where it was applied for longer and less gets used. Ideal for pretreatment, not that great if roads are already covered. But that might be down to the challenges of driving a tanker on snowy roads.

Sun, 12/11/2016 - 21:51
Petr5
Petr5's picture

Those rubberized work gloves are called Ninja Ice, but they come in a bunch of other flavors too. http://www.ninjagloves.com/docs/ninja_icehtp.htm

Good luck with the wet feet, but you live in California so...

Sneaky Viking wrote:
"Your bike sucks and we have a team of biased experts to pseudo-scientifically test that hypothesis, all in blue shirts."

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 03:45
dorth
dorth's picture

The "ice" model is a winter glove, they're decently warm. they also do other coated gloves that might be more suitable for warmer climate. or just buy a few dif pairs coz they're like 6dollars

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 08:11
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture

If you're not gonna wear cycling specific shoes, you need to spend some serious $$$ on waterproof boots. Lightweight hikers are probably your best bet. This is why most people in the PNW wear cycling shoes with covers for their rainy commutes: There's really nothing better than shoe covers for soaking wet rides. Many shoe covers will fit over chrome or DZR style shoes, but make sure that you test it out before buying, and you'll need to take the covers off and find some way to transport them. I have a co-worker who has the DZR shoes (I think) and he seems to think they're pretty dang waterproof. I know you don't want to buy specific shoes, but there may not be many better choices. You may be able to get some cheap shoe covers that fit fine over your current kicks.

If you're infrequently riding in the rain, try rubber dishwashing/cleaning gloves as a cheap option, maybe with some very thin glove liners inside to help manage sweat. I use a combination of softshell gloves, quick dry gloves, and some giro gore-tex super waterproof gloves that are basically ski gloves and cost a fortune, depending on the amount and duration of precipitation. I usually carry an extra pair so I can change as needed.

Lazer helmets make quite a few snap on "aero" covers that are also great rain hats because they are clear plastic and quite impermeable.

Also, make sure that you have an appropriately long set of fenders and use a front mudflap, as it will block a surprising amount of water from your front tire.

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 10:17
Rusty Piton
Rusty Piton's picture

I love the Ice Ninjas. They work for me down to ~0f then I gotta bust out the lobster mitts.

emor wrote:
Bicycle commuting is the worst way to get anywhere except for all the other ways.

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 10:19
ShartAttack
ShartAttack's picture

I may be looking into Ninja Ice even here in Texas. I really want to love the Duragloves but it gets just colder than they can handle on some mornings.

Former RAGBRAI enthusiast

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 10:37
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

Those Ninja Ice gloves seem perfect for defending M'lady's honor!

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 10:40
ShartAttack
ShartAttack's picture

not all gloves

Former RAGBRAI enthusiast

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 11:00
Rentable Faxmachine
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Any recommendations for super-thin glove liners?

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 11:01
Petr5
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How thin? I always use those cheap stretch to fit knit gloves. They're awesome. Have a pile of em.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
"Your bike sucks and we have a team of biased experts to pseudo-scientifically test that hypothesis, all in blue shirts."

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 11:07
Rentable Faxmachine
Rentable Faxmachine's picture
(Reply to #374)

Petr5 wrote:
How thin? I always use those cheap stretch to fit knit gloves. They're awesome. Have a pile of em.

Not sure. I want to wear them under my PI half-lobster gloves.

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 11:18
eric_ssucks
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Mon, 12/12/2016 - 11:57
euclid
euclid's picture

For gloves for rainy weather be sure the cuff of the glove fits under the sleeve. Many gloves have a cuff designed to fit over the sleeve--this will act like a funnel into the glove for the rain running down your arm.

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 12:06
Rentable Faxmachine
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(Reply to #377)
Mon, 12/12/2016 - 13:06
lukasz
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I used to use liners a lot on the bike and they would never last more than a couple of months before a seam blew out.

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 13:19
Andrew_Squirrel
Andrew_Squirrel's picture
(Reply to #379)

euclid wrote:
For gloves for rainy weather be sure the cuff of the glove fits under the sleeve. Many gloves have a cuff designed to fit over the sleeve--this will act like a funnel into the glove for the rain running down your arm.

Since most of my gloves aren't really waterproof, just warm when wet, this seems like it doesn't really improve hand dryness.
What would be neat is a sort of gutter flare at the end of the raincoat sleeve to deflect the water running down your sleeves away from your gloves.

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 13:26
jdsmooth
jdsmooth's picture
(Reply to #380)

Reasonable Facsimile wrote:
Petr5 wrote:
How thin? I always use those cheap stretch to fit knit gloves. They're awesome. Have a pile of em.

Not sure. I want to wear them under my PI half-lobster gloves.

I use PI P.R.O. Thermal Lite gloves as liners and they work well. They're thinnish, enough to fit under my hardware store work gloves. A+.

Five-foot drops at speed on unstable terrain? Yep.

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 13:30
joy of vaping
joy of vaping's picture

Anyone have some favorite cheap (<$30) handlebar mitts?

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 14:22
johnasavoia
johnasavoia's picture

https://www.amazon.com/Kwik-ATVM-MO-Protector-Mitts-Mossy/dp/B000OF72X4/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1481570849&sr=8-5&keywords=atv+mitts
I'm using these hideous ones cause they were the cheapest on amazon when I bought em. Work fine on the swept flat bars they're on. Cinched on extra well with some toe clip straps. Comfortable gloveless in mid 20s, hasn't gotten colder than that yet but I can't imagine I'll need more than light gloves with these. Wish I had done this years ago.

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 14:29
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture
(Reply to #383)

joy of tarcking wrote:
Anyone have some favorite cheap (<$30) handlebar mitts?

I am also into this.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 14:37
aerobear
aerobear's picture

In all my years of shoecover usage, i've still never had success past the 30-45 minute mark for wet/rain. Generally good for commuting, but always still wet on long road rides, it just takes longer. Though I bet the success goes up greatly with a pair of rain pants, since water cant just run down your leg and slowly make its way into your shoe, which is what would happen to me wearing leg warmers. I can't imagine wearing rain pants on a 30-45 minute ride though, esp not in california.

Hands on the other hand have done pretty well so long as my cuff goes under the jacket. PI WXB gloves with a wool liner were the best combo i found.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 14:53
ShartAttack
ShartAttack's picture

I used those same ones as John, the material on the inside isn't fleece or anything fancy like that so I still liked to wear gloves with them but they get the job done.

Former RAGBRAI enthusiast

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 14:54
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture

My hour long commute was OK with rain pants and shoe covers, but then again I had fancy rain pants and was changing clothes at my destination anyways so if I got a little sweaty/wet it was NBD. My $20 neoprene shoe covers were better than my $60 endura covers for warmth, and about the same for wet, and they smelled much worse. I had some super nice shimano ones that would probably have worked for long road rides but they were a pain to put on so I think I gave 'em to goodwill or something. PNW commuting is all about clothing options, because 50 degrees and downpour requires a different set of gear from 40 degrees and damp streets/sprinkles and different gear from 25 degrees, frosty and clear.

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 15:51
aerobear
aerobear's picture

yeah. i can see tights under rain pants being a little better on al ong commute than jeans under rain pants.

plus best part about rain pants is that if you fart in em, it stays in there until you reach your destination

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 15:56
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture

Oh yeah, had a 20 minute commute to PSU BITD 7 years ago, rain pants plus jeans was ass, no matter how long it was for.

Turns out that bike specific clothing is pretty good at being comfortable on the bike.

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 16:18
mdilthey
mdilthey's picture

Agree with Eric on pretty much all points. I'll add that big vents in the armpits of your rain jacket and big vents on the thighs of your rain pants makes a huge difference. I can open up my rain pants ~10-12 inches on the sides of my thighs, and that vents heat like crazy, and it's sooo much more comfortable. I have a much lighter "backup" pair of rain pants in my bag all the time with no vents and they kind of suck.

As for feet, gore-tex socks and sandals is the absolute best above 40 degrees. Layer in some wool if it's near the 40º mark. No wet shoes, no issues. I just rock tevas and look like world's biggest tool, but I change when I arrive where I'm going. I used this in Iceland a lot this past summer.

Below freezing, however, you have to have insulated boots. My waterproof boots stay dry for about an hour in a downpour and then I get wet. It inevitably happens. There's like a very narrow temperature margin where it's too warm for snow and too cold for WPB socks and sandals, that I hate. Have not really mastered that particular condition yet. Almost anything else, I can ride all day.

Arcteryx used to make these mil-spec Gore-Tex socks that came up above your calf, and cinched shut. I wish I could find them still. They looked like the real deal.

26/M/41t N/W

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 17:32
b-roll
b-roll's picture
(Reply to #390)

fix wrote:

i bought some of those sidi rain shoes; will report in on success.

I bought a pair of the cold weather ones. Two snowy fatbike rides in, I'd say they are OK. I've been using Shimano WM81s for the last few years, and the Sidi's are probably just slightly less warm. On the plus side they are sleeker and I can actually get a (roomy) pair of shoe covers over them--an absurd idea with the blocky Frankenfoot WM81s. This week's polar vortex action will give me a chance to try out that option. The ankle cuff is nice and sturdy, in contrast to the floppy ones on the Shimanos--maybe they fixed it, but mine got sliced by the industrial strength velcro straps almost immediately.

On the minus side is the same old rather hard cleat material that Sidi has on everything, which feels just a little iffy on slick surfaces.

On the plus side again, I've yet to destroy/wear out a pair of Sidis, and Lord knows I've tried.
I could see actually racing in these in a super cold CX situation.

"Long story short: I'm stupid, but stupid like a fox."

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 20:10
emor
emor's picture

I've pulled out my ninja ice gloves for winter, they're really by the best intersection of price and quality for winter cycling gloves. In fact, I always have to take them off before I get to work because they're too hot. Even when it was 28 last week.

After about ten years of PNW bike commuting I've come to the conclusion wet and warm is the only sustainable long term option. I've stopped using booties because I destroy them in a month. I just switch into dry socks and shoes when I get to work. I do put on some toe covers though, but after a season they're pretty worn out.

I think if I were serious about dry feet on a bike, goretex bike shoes are the only good option, except for cost.

Also, FNG actually reccomended waterproof socks and SPD sandals combo. WTFLOL FNG.

"my main life goal is to have a dirtbag camper van with a bunch of bikes on it, go camping every vacation forever" -- me

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 22:51
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

WTFNG!

The only acceptable sandal combo is wool socks and Crocs on platform pedals. Duh!

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 23:09
joy of vaping
joy of vaping's picture

err i've been known to wear socks + tevas w platform pedals

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 23:20
ShartAttack
ShartAttack's picture
(Reply to #394)

joy of tarcking wrote:
err i've been known to wear socks + tevas w platform pedals

Former RAGBRAI enthusiast

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 23:56
Face
Face's picture

Thanks for all the input. As of right now I have some decent cycling specific convertible rain pants and a waterproof shell jacket. In a complete downpour I'll be riding my basket bike with platforms so I can just wear my regular waterproof boots and have dry feet. For days where it's going to be less than stormageddon I guess I'll look into waterproof booties for my mtb shoes.

I have some work gloves similar to the ice ninjas but the waterproof coating only goes up to my palm, leaving the fabric around my wrist to soak up h2o. I've never used them with the new rain jacket, so maybe I'll give that a try before purchasing anything. The sleeves are pretty long so I bet they'd cover most of the unprotected area.

Good call on the hamlet cover, I've always just used a cap under my hamlet and dealt with a soaked dome. My head gets pretty warm, so even wet under a cotton cycling cap I'm usually OK. Would be nice to keep some water off in some situations though. I'll look into one of those shower cap looking covers, I don't have a Lazer hamlet. Maybe a waterproof cap, anyone have good lock with those?

Ive got regular PB fenders on one bike with the rubber mud flat and it does a pretty good job of keeping the road spray off my feet. The other hike with SKS fenders has a smaller flap but it has platforms and I'll just rear rubber boots on that bike.

Mr. Pubes wrote:
i fear that you are so lost in your own asshole that you may never be found again. do you have a flare gun? send for help.

Mon, 12/12/2016 - 23:57
crowding
crowding's picture

Anyone have an opinion on rainlegs?

Tue, 12/13/2016 - 00:40
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture
(Reply to #397)

crowding wrote:
Anyone have an opinion on rainlegs?

Not as durable as I had hoped. and the whole crotch thing basically left me looking like I had had an accident on the way in. The full length version might be OK, but there's a reason why I wear rain pants.

Tue, 12/13/2016 - 10:42
emor
emor's picture

I didn't like them very much. Water would run off of them and onto my pants, which would wick up all the moisture. In the end, I looked stupid on my bike and arrived at work with wet pants anyway.

"my main life goal is to have a dirtbag camper van with a bunch of bikes on it, go camping every vacation forever" -- me

Tue, 12/13/2016 - 10:57
Rentable Faxmachine
Rentable Faxmachine's picture

The waterproof DZR shoes are supposed to be pretty good. I have a pair of DZR canvas shoes, and they're definitely better than the comparable shoes from Chrome.

Tue, 12/13/2016 - 12:33
Face
Face's picture

Well, first real rain ride of the season with new gear. Showers pass double century jacket and convertible club pants performed flawlessly. Pretty sure I just need a waterproof cap under my hamlet to make my head happy although it wasn't too bad with the cotton cap, I really only wear it so the brim can keep water out of my eyes.

I tried my ice-ninja-like work gloves that are only waterproofed to the palm and about half way up the back of my hand and they were terrible. The exposed fabric wicked up water into the rest of the glove in the first 10 minutes then I spent the rest of the ride with wet cold hands. It's hard to tell from the pictures, but do the actual ninja gloves have waterproofing up to the cuff? I gotta try something different.

My feet were OK with bags over my socks, just got my socks wet a little around my ankle but since they're wool I didn't even notice till I got home and took my shoes off. Only problem is that now that my shoes are soaking wet I'm remembering that they usually take a full day to dry, not sure what I'm going to do about footwear for tomorrow's commute. I was looking around Amazon for booties but seems that none of the cheap ones go above a 42 or 44 and I wear a 49. Looks like I'm going to have to commit to some nice ones, which isn't the end of the world because I can use them on the MTB for wet rides. Any recommendations for actual nice waterproof MTB booties?

Mr. Pubes wrote:
i fear that you are so lost in your own asshole that you may never be found again. do you have a flare gun? send for help.

Thu, 12/15/2016 - 23:05

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