Ham Curious

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Gary Fissure
Ham Curious

In the course of winter Bike Ditherings, I have latched upon the tarckbear-forsaken idea of getting a hambiek to do double duty as a fun kid hauler/winter snow thing.

I'm looking for something with rear rack mounts and 135 rear spacing, for to take a rear child seat. also will have a front child seat when not in winter mode. Size will be XL

I'm looking at a Pugsley or one of these bikesdirect things. Anything else I should be looking at?

I'm debating either building a wheelset for 45c Nomads for non-winter duty, or just getting some big fat Vee Rubber speedsters.

The Surly would be better because I could slowly accumulate parts at cost, so wife could remain in the dark about the true cost of this nonsense. Also sortof opposed to bikesdirect on principle, as a shopbro. I also like the Special Ops Pug cos SLX brakes.

What say you, tarck? hambieks, are they overrated? Should I Krampus or Moonlander or something else?

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 13:36
Gary Fissure

derp.

mander wrote:
And what if the part is, like, just a nut? *huge bong rip*

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 13:37
NOVELTYNAME
NOVELTYNAME's picture

i thought the pugs was 170 rear spacing?
i really like the krampus, got to sit on one at universalcycles. bouncy. would like to try on a trail.

mayb fat front?

"Folks want options!"

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 13:44
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

cogburn atmo

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 13:50
ShartAttack
ShartAttack's picture
(Reply to #4)

Endpoint wrote:
cogburn atmo

Part of me kinda digs the idea of a "hunting bike", but I'm not sure I'd want to drag a deer with one. Or maybe I would?

I am also hamcurious. My demo ride on a Beargrease didn't help.

Former RAGBRAI enthusiast

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 14:07
Gary Fissure
(Reply to #5)

Endpoint wrote:
cogburn atmo

you serious?
less sizing, not as good part spec as the Special Op. Questionable paint. I can't find anything that says the actual rear spacing, but I suspect it is not 135- "The rear hub spacing and tube design provide clearance for fat tires without the need to ‘dish’ them outboard for tire clearance at the chain. "
I need 135 for rear child seat/Topeak rack.

mander wrote:
And what if the part is, like, just a nut? *huge bong rip*

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 14:17
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

not really serious but real tree dad bike is lulzy

go all out and get a burley trailer so no need for 135 spacing?

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 14:19
Gary Fissure

eh, I have a Schwinn trailer that won't die. looking for something else, not as wide, more fun.

mander wrote:
And what if the part is, like, just a nut? *huge bong rip*

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 14:43
NoahGenda
NoahGenda's picture

Dang those Motobacons can be reasonably spec'd for that price point

Rode my buddys Krampus recently and its real nice

The best type of fit advice is internet fit advice.

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 14:57
ryker
ryker's picture

Sneaky Viking wrote:
I also like the Special Ops Pug cos SLX brakes.

The Pug Ops on Surly's site lists BB7 brakes (in black colorway). The color in general and matchy rims are nifty. It must be winter cos thinking about how I would tweak this bike from my partsbin yet such a purchase will never happen.

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 15:18
hiljentaa
hiljentaa's picture

Unless you really want to snowbiek a lot, I'd go Krampus.

Don't buy a BD shitshow.

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 15:18
The RTS
The RTS's picture

while the Pugsley is 135mm spacing it is offset to the driveside so mounting any rear rack is a fucking PITA.

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 15:35
VT regularbike
VT regularbike's picture

Just use a steel rack and ducking stretch that thing out to 170 and call it a day.

Miguel wrote:
i mean as long as we're spending money, lets just set the wallet on fire ok

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 16:20
randsome beast
randsome beast's picture

Hambiek bakfiet with tie down inside the wheelbarrow for a car seat to hold the little one. Middle child might even be able to straddle it and wrangle feeding bottles for you.

emor wrote:
RANDO LIFE IS LIFE ON THE EDGE

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 17:01
Gary Fissure

okay, so it looks like no matter what, I'll need to get a new seat with a steel rack so I can bend the shit out of it.

What cheap options am I overlooking in 170? Trashbar? edit: oshi I could get the Special Ed!

Also, I have a HT 29er... what does Krampus have to offer that my HT doesn't do? (I live in New England and actually want a winter bike too.)

Rando, I have to see if I like this fat bike thing before I get Erik Winter to build me a hamfiet one

mander wrote:
And what if the part is, like, just a nut? *huge bong rip*

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 17:27
NOVELTYNAME
NOVELTYNAME's picture

krampus does 3" tires thats what

"Folks want options!"

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 17:41
that guy
that guy's picture

Salsa is sold out of Mukluks. There are still Pugsleys to be had.

9zero7 makes an offset 135 frame with sliders.

Pugs will fit a knard / rabbit hole wheelset. Do a GIS for Krampug.

In my experience: Full hambeik sucks on the street. The big tires self-steer and its annoying. 29+ is better if you're doing mostly road/gravel and less deep snow. The Surly ECR is actually better option if you are doing more exploration/commuting/fucking around and less full-bore mountain biking.

Bikes suck. Don't ride one.

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 17:49
that guy
that guy's picture

Also, my plan is to somehow find a Mukluk and build a second 29+ wheelset so this thread is very relevant to my interests....

Bikes suck. Don't ride one.

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 17:54
Gary Fissure
(Reply to #18)

Miguel wrote:
krampus does 3" tires thats what

not sure if just being a dick answer
but if not just being a dick
what does non-suspension 3" tires get me that suspension + 2.35s doesn't?

I know a couple guys that got Pugsleys here for winter and one guy that rides a Jones for everything. I get that ham tires are good for snow/fauxspension... but Krampus seems like it's for luddites who want a 29er.

This would be a snow bike/ backup full bore mtn bike. when not a kid hauling dadstrosity.

mander wrote:
And what if the part is, like, just a nut? *huge bong rip*

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 20:02
that guy
that guy's picture

The Krampus rides like a rigid 29er with big wheels, ATMO. Any talk of "suspension" in those tires is smiley . Same goes for full-size hambiek.

Bikes suck. Don't ride one.

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 22:29
NOVELTYNAME
NOVELTYNAME's picture
(Reply to #20)

Sneaky Viking wrote:
Miguel wrote:
krampus does 3" tires thats what

not sure if just being a dick answer
but if not just being a dick
what does non-suspension 3" tires get me that suspension + 2.35s doesn't?

Not a dick answer fwiw, not tryna be a dick.
Still sensitive about MigTBgate 2013(c)

I think I am that Luddite who wants a rigid mtb and I get the fauxspension, I wish I could rent one or borrow. I've tried them on at the bike shop but I don't have any actual trail/gravel experience

"Folks want options!"

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 22:38
Gary Fissure

so... I'm seeing this tapered carbon fat fork on J&B for June release; I'm a little concerned that buying a Pug at this point is buying into 7 year old design, like a lot of the Surly designs.

mander wrote:
And what if the part is, like, just a nut? *huge bong rip*

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 09:06
naterod
naterod's picture

I would ride the shit out of a moonlander... if I didn't live in the city. Would be pointless here.

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 11:25
lofarkas
lofarkas's picture
(Reply to #23)

Sneaky Viking wrote:
Miguel wrote:
krampus does 3" tires thats what

not sure if just being a dick answer
but if not just being a dick
what does non-suspension 3" tires get me that suspension + 2.35s doesn't?

I thought the whole point of hambikes was not sinking into snow (and maybe sand). If you want to do a fair bit of riding offroad in snow then I imagine you want BIG tyres. If not, there's no point in taking the massive speed penalty on every other road surface.

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 14:40
ShartAttack
ShartAttack's picture

How do 29ers ride in the snow? I'm guessing they don't have near the same float as the hambieks. My wife wants a hambiek but I almost wonder if it wasn't the bike she liked as much as riding offroad. Though she's too short for a 29er, she'd be on 26" wheels fo sho.

Former RAGBRAI enthusiast

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 14:55
Gary Fissure

26 with 4" tire hambiek wheels have pretty much same outer diameter as 29 with a 2.3

mander wrote:
And what if the part is, like, just a nut? *huge bong rip*

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 14:58
that guy
that guy's picture

29ers sorta work in the snow if conditions are right. No different than any other mountain bike, I'd say.

On the other end, even a ham biek will suck in deep powdery snow ruts. Especially uphill. Much hike a bike.

Bikes suck. Don't ride one.

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 18:43
daedelus
daedelus's picture

I once built a ss 29er for a snow bike because I couldn't justify a hambike. I found that my fg cross bike was better for most types of city snow anyway.

totallynotsol wrote:
"free love feminist vegan bicyclist"

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 18:55
ShartAttack
ShartAttack's picture

Yeah I keep trying to justify some kind of mountain bike, but I'm afraid to take the plunge just in case my wife ends up liking it but not really wanting to take the time to do it. So I figure winter commuting would be added incentive, but my hybrid with winter tires seems to be rideable here since they plow most paths.

Former RAGBRAI enthusiast

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 20:55
VT regularbike
VT regularbike's picture

1. Sell hybrid
2. Buy mtb
3. Throw slicks on mtb for hybrid type stuff
4. Shred/profit

Miguel wrote:
i mean as long as we're spending money, lets just set the wallet on fire ok

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 21:02
ShartAttack
ShartAttack's picture

Seems pretty reasonable...

Former RAGBRAI enthusiast

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 21:08
randsome beast
randsome beast's picture

TC: Can't stand Hambieks. Too much of the cycling world is turning into the motorcycle world. Just waiting on someone to popularize mini-bikes and I'm never going to ride dirt or gravel again. Think my balls are just getting long.

emor wrote:
RANDO LIFE IS LIFE ON THE EDGE

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 21:11
VT regularbike
VT regularbike's picture

Like this? Still better than fgfs atmo.

Miguel wrote:
i mean as long as we're spending money, lets just set the wallet on fire ok

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 21:20
Gary Fissure
(Reply to #33)

rando wrote:
TC: Can't stand Hambieks. Too much of the cycling world is turning into the motorcycle world. Just waiting on someone to popularize mini-bikes and I'm never going to ride dirt or gravel again. Think my balls are just getting long.

didn't you swear off gravel before, and then go on a 3 hour gravel sufferfest?

mander wrote:
And what if the part is, like, just a nut? *huge bong rip*

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 21:34
randsome beast
randsome beast's picture

I swore off owning a mountain bike in a locale sans mountains. Finding that maybe I've had too much adventure to relate anymore and the things everyone else think are rad just bum me out nowadays.

Still interested in what you end up getting and seeing you through not needing multiple iterations to arrive at the best solution. Kids grow up fast enough today's perfect plan is worthless in a month or two.

Maybe a dad-e-hambiek could be your ticket. If you get the weight distribution right it would go through snow unassisted no worse than a normal one. Speed on command might be fun for all involved before long, in more seasonable weather. Call that a concession towards providing something useful out of a complaint that didn't need to be aired.

emor wrote:
RANDO LIFE IS LIFE ON THE EDGE

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 00:16
lukasz
lukasz's picture

29er sucks in the deep snow. I've tried it. Good unicycle practice maybe. You get going and your rear wheel spins a lot while you stand and try to balance on the front while pushing through snow. I don't get fatties in anything except for snow or beach sand.

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 00:13
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

"I assure you young man, that neither I nor my friend here, that neither of us would be described, as you generously put it, as 'ham curious."

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 00:54
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture

Sneaky Viking wrote:
so... I'm seeing this tapered carbon fat fork on J&B for June release; I'm a little concerned that buying a Pug at this point is buying into 7 year old design, like a lot of the Surly designs.

nailed it

Sneaky Viking wrote:
I'm looking at a Pugsley or one of these bikesdirect things. Anything else I should be looking at?

this is the bike to get atmo, Jeff Jones style geo with a 60mm offset fork:

http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBOOFATX52/on_one_fatty_fat_bike
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOFAT/on_one_fatty_frame

the bundle of the frameset and wheelset is a hell of a deal: http://www.planet-x-usa.com/product-p/buoofat.htm

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 03:40
Gary Fissure

I saw the on-one, and it does seem like a good deal, but I'm concerned about the rack mount situation.
It looks like there's threaded eyelets at the dropout, and maybe could get the seatpost binder that has mounting points?

mander wrote:
And what if the part is, like, just a nut? *huge bong rip*

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 09:16
ShartAttack
ShartAttack's picture

So on something like the Pugsley, it being an old design, is there anything wrong with that if all I'm going to do is put around on it? Or is it just stupid to pay that much money for an outdated design?

Former RAGBRAI enthusiast

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 11:30
naterod
naterod's picture
(Reply to #40)

VT regularbike wrote:
Like this? Still better than fgfs atmo.

oh god no.

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 11:59
Gary Fissure
(Reply to #41)

ShartAttack wrote:
So on something like the Pugsley, it being an old design, is there anything wrong with that if all I'm going to do is put around on it? Or is it just stupid to pay that much money for an outdated design?

The thing with Surlys is they basically never change the design on their bikes, just put them out in different colors.

So while the Pugsley was one of the first mass-produced fat bikes, the trend has been to slacken out headtube angles a bit on more modern designs like the On-One or even the Bikesdirect. And lighter material like aluminum has been embraced. And bigger headtubes.

That said, I might get a Pug still because of utility aspects that some more performance-oriented bikes leave off.

Also there's a 50+ page thread on mtbr about the BD bike; it was designed by a guy in Norway for the Norway market and then open molded from the factory to BD. So... maybe less of a shitshow than some other models? but still, shopbro can't abide.

mander wrote:
And what if the part is, like, just a nut? *huge bong rip*

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 12:48
ShartAttack
ShartAttack's picture
(Reply to #42)

Sneaky Viking wrote:
ShartAttack wrote:
So on something like the Pugsley, it being an old design, is there anything wrong with that if all I'm going to do is put around on it? Or is it just stupid to pay that much money for an outdated design?

The thing with Surlys is they basically never change the design on their bikes, just put them out in different colors.

So while the Pugsley was one of the first mass-produced fat bikes, the trend has been to slacken out headtube angles a bit on more modern designs like the On-One or even the Bikesdirect. And lighter material like aluminum has been embraced. And bigger headtubes.

That said, I might get a Pug still because of utility aspects that some more performance-oriented bikes leave off.

Thanks, that makes sense. I love my LHT, but a building a touring bike frame probably isn't rocket surgery these days. Lots more stuff to figure out in the fat bike market.

FWIW I'm kinda in the same boat as you, the Pugsley is less appealing to me for the above reasons but it's also supposed to be the tinkerer's bike. On the other hand the Salsa Mukluk is supposed to be pretty nice too...

Snowing here today. If I can get away from work at a decent time I kinda want to go to the hambiek dealer.

Former RAGBRAI enthusiast

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 12:52
aerobear
aerobear's picture

semi ham related lols

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 13:00
NOVELTYNAME
NOVELTYNAME's picture

Gordo d'italia

"Folks want options!"

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 14:07
ShartAttack
ShartAttack's picture

Was looking at the MTBR thread about the BD bikes, looks like some of those guys have already swapped over the Surly tires. Once you've done that, you're about $200-300 closer in price to a Surly/Salsa. If the wheels/tires on the BD bikes are shit then I don't really think you are saving that much money buying them.

Former RAGBRAI enthusiast

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 14:36
hiljentaa
hiljentaa's picture

That is always the problem with BD bikes...most of the components suck. You end up spending way more upgrading and you are still left with a turd frame.

This is coming from a guy with one of those shitbox Gravity SS29ers. The fork is hella bent, and the wheels have not been anywhere close to round for a year+. And it weighs close to 25 pounds...for an alu SS.

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 15:35
The RTS
The RTS's picture

after riding a Pugsley for 3 years I switched to a Trek Farley. Way lighter and better geometry for offroad fat bike action. Bonus in that the frame doesn't look like it was run over by a dump truck.

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 15:46
randsome beast
randsome beast's picture

Lols were had today when I got back to and unplowed bridge and two Hambieks had been the only other traffic. One must have been a moonlander or whatever has the widest tires. The comparison between my 32's, a standard sized Hambiek tire, and the moonlander's was eye opening. Only one of us got bored and started swerving instead of being forced into it by a loss of traction.

emor wrote:
RANDO LIFE IS LIFE ON THE EDGE

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 15:54
ShartAttack
ShartAttack's picture
(Reply to #49)

The RTS wrote:
after riding a Pugsley for 3 years I switched to a Trek Farley. Way lighter and better geometry for offroad fat bike action. Bonus in that the frame doesn't look like it was run over by a dump truck.

Went to a shop today that had a Pugsley right next to the Mukluk, and it's hard to picture buying the Surly after seeing that goofy rear end. They had the Trek and that looked pretty nice too, but too much money for me. The Mukluk seems like the bike to have If you are trying to keep something of a budget. (I want my budget to be $0 but it's getting harder and harder to say no). I ought to sell my hybrid in the spring, with some racks on the Mukluk it would make a passable backup bike for when things aren't snowy.

Former RAGBRAI enthusiast

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 18:38
that guy
that guy's picture

It's pretty clear the hambike market is starting to diversify. Surlys, Mukluks and the like are at the "adventure/expedition" end while the Beargrease, Trek, Specializeds, etc. are more designed for "mountain biking". Then you've got your BD, Nashbar, KHS crowd going for the "it's a toy" market.

Bikes suck. Don't ride one.

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 20:02

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