bike jocks road and track 2014/15 thread

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iwillbe
iwillbe's picture
(Reply to #1151)

Roundabout wrote:
If you find and doing overly structured heart rate training is killing the fun but still want to ad some structure, you could do a couple rides every so often with heart rate to calibrate your perceived exertion and then do the structured workouts using PE as a general baseline. Don't feel obligated to commit whole hog to hardcore roadie training if it saps the fun out. My training the last year was largely "ride kinda hard on the flats" and "ooh a climb let's go hard up that" intervals. I enjoyed it a lot more.

Also having riding partners on a structured plan that you ride along with can be fun too.

Good point:
I can get my intuitions about perceived effort periodically checked by HR use.

I totally admit that it's my personality, not training in the abstract, that's at issue here. Most people can probably do some light quantification of their workouts without getting all weird and spreadsheety, I just tend to really home in on any kind of improvable personal metric, to the exclusion of, you know, fun.

Fri, 05/12/2017 - 16:33
curiousincident
curiousincident's picture

people got really fast before all the metrics we have today. i've gotten gadgets and coaching and i find it helpful, but even still i think my progress would stagnate without making sure i show up to fast group rides on the regular that have faster wheels i can chase recklessly. no computer screen motivates like that for me.

Fri, 05/12/2017 - 20:53
curiousincident
curiousincident's picture

PR'd a local bi-weekly hilly practice TT this week by :30 on a windy day, and would have had another :30 up on it had i not had to deal with some vehicle traffic. FTP is creeping up awfully close to 4.5 w/kg - looking forward to putting it to use in a few more XC races in the next month. maybe i'll hit up a road race or two...

Fri, 05/12/2017 - 20:58
liquify
liquify's picture

fug yeah, scott!

Fri, 05/12/2017 - 21:39
y
y's picture
(Reply to #1155)

curiousincident wrote:
FTP is creeping up awfully close to 4.5 w/kg

you'll wonder how you ever rode a bike before.

Sat, 05/13/2017 - 21:29
Bahamontes
Bahamontes's picture

So I'm doing this Lapathon thing for the youth program at the track. I hadn't been on a track for many years since yesterday, when I rode 50 miles on the road, came home to switch bikes, and rode on the track for an hour (probably a half hour; some friends were there and I was being social)

I tried to go out at a sustainable pace (what felt like 15 mph) and ended up doing mostly ~22mph laps without going too hard. Then I rode home. It was fine; I felt like I could have gone for a long time. Do I need to go out and ride that bike for more than an hour before this event on Saturday, or am I good?

Mon, 05/15/2017 - 12:57
BabbyMatt
BabbyMatt's picture
(Reply to #1157)

Bahamontes wrote:
So I'm doing this Lapathon thing for the youth program at the track. I hadn't been on a track for many years since yesterday, when I rode 50 miles on the road, came home to switch bikes, and rode on the track for an hour (probably a half hour; some friends were there and I was being social)

I tried to go out at a sustainable pace (what felt like 15 mph) and ended up doing mostly ~22mph laps without going too hard. Then I rode home. It was fine; I felt like I could have gone for a long time. Do I need to go out and ride that bike for more than an hour before this event on Saturday, or am I good?

What's are the details of the event? How different is the fit between your road bike and track bike? Sounds like you've still got the endurance for it at least a few hours of riding, I'd probably just make sure nutrition the night before and during the event are on point.

Mon, 05/15/2017 - 15:10
aerobear
aerobear's picture

I mean, you're not gonna gain any fitness in the next week, so it's best to go in somewhat fresh.

Only thing to watch out for is that spending too long in the drops is likely to destroy your hamstrings, so make sure to change up positions, use the tops, get out if the saddle, etc. if this is an all day laps kinda event.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Mon, 05/15/2017 - 20:05
Bahamontes
Bahamontes's picture

Good advice; thank you.

The event is 6 houra with a one hour break to spiel about the youth program and the late namesake of the event. There is a 200 lap max on a 1/5 mile track. I'm hoping to be maxed out by the break.

http://anython.com/halmuellerlapathon?participant=81437

Tue, 05/16/2017 - 10:46
aerobear
aerobear's picture

40 miles max? Yeah, should be no problem.. You'll be maxed in out 2 hours.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Tue, 05/16/2017 - 21:02
rauce
rauce's picture

May not be winning races but at least my legs look good.

Sat, 06/03/2017 - 11:16
aerobear
aerobear's picture

had a pretty good race today. i'm super tired and ready for rest week to start on monday. i had two younger teammates in the race with me, one thats somewhat new and one that has been racing for years, but is only 19. so i decided one of em needed to sprint and said i'd do the lead out. the younger teammate is probably the best of the two at positioning so we chatted before the race and had a somewhat detailed plan (i.e. come out of this corner first wheel if you wanna win). i pulled her up through the field and across the front of the group into the lead going into the last straight and kept my speed and she dove around me through the last turn and held it for the win. pretty excited to have formulated a plan and stuck to it.

2nd and 3rd were both colavita pro team gals, so pretty fucking awesome.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Sat, 06/03/2017 - 18:54
Roundabout
Roundabout's picture

Sounds like a solid HY!

Sat, 06/03/2017 - 20:25
y
y's picture
(Reply to #1164)

aerobear wrote:
super tired and ready for rest week to start on monday.

totally relate.

also, congrats on the team win!

Sun, 06/04/2017 - 19:23
BabbyMatt
BabbyMatt's picture

hy amy, its awesome when a plan comes together!

Mon, 06/05/2017 - 11:20
BabbyMatt
BabbyMatt's picture

So it's just crits here now, wish we had more RR's in the summer.

Couple weeks ago, same course as I won on previously, raced the P123, 3/4, and 3 fields. In the e3/4, a pro triathlete was up the road and no one really knew who he was. Coming into 5 to go I attacked to try to bridge or at least get 2nd, but the legs just weren't there and I faded hard and got caught coming into the final lap.

Cat 3 race went a little better. Maintained really good position at the front end of the field for 95% of the race. There were a couple of really strong looking guys at the front throwing gut punches at each other, but not really doing much to get away from the field, mostly just stringing it out a lot. So coming into three to go, they're up to their shenanigans, so I wait for one of them to sit up after a super hard dig, then I launch past them as they're recovering and go all out. I pass one other guy that was up the road, but he's fading hard and doesn't latch on to my wheel. Coming into two to go, I felt like my power was way low and that I was going too slow and going to get caught again, but I figured I'd come this far so I might as well keep going. I get as aero as I can and try to hug the inside of the course, holding about 350w on the straights. I look back after each corner, and it seems like they're getting closer, but as I come into 1 to go our team director tells me I still have about 15 seconds on them. It's 95 degrees out, my mouth is super dry, but I figure it's just one more lap so I truck on. Coming into the last corner, I have a glance back and see that they're just rounding the previous one. I drop the power down a little bit, and coast in with a comfortable gap for the win! To top it off, one teammate won the field sprint, the other got 3rd in it, so we went 1, 2, 4

P123 race started off hard, I missed the split, practiced cornering with the fast dudes. Then my toenail started hurting and I felt like going home so I pulled out about 45 mins in. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Raced Ladera Ranch/SCNCA Crit State Champs yesterday. Fun course, but I'd been sick for a week prior, and then just barely back on the bike after that. Legs were super flat and I was just barely holding on to the pack for most of it. The pro triathlete upgraded to cat 3 and solo'ed away at 4-5 laps in. One of my teammates went with and sat on his wheel for about 5 laps before getting dropped, said he was doing 325w just in the draft. I got to practice moving up and cornering more aggressively in what I consider a semi-technical crit (which I usually suck at), and did a lot better than previously, just didn't have the horsepower to do much. Took a half lap pull to try to bring tri-guy back, mainly because I didn't want a triathlete to take the bear jersey home, but of course no one would follow my pull up with anything useful. Other teammate won the bunch sprint for 3rd. One other guy joined the pro up the road but couldn't outsprint. He avg'ed 27.2 mph solo for about 40 minutes at 325w avg, and 450w avg for the last 1.5 mins (not a big guy either, probably lighter than me), so I guess he deserved it.

Mon, 06/12/2017 - 18:12
aerobear
aerobear's picture

nice work, matt. seems like you're having a good year.

as i already told matt, i nearly bailed going into the last sprint in the crit on sunday. scraped a pedal and was skidding sideways, recovered it, but couldnt make up any ground and came in 4th.

1st and 2nd are current pros and 3rd place was pro, before switching back to triathlons for this year. but i still feel like i had a chance at the real podium - we just didnt move quite aggressively enough at the end, then i went too wide in that corner. 1st and 2nd we had beaten last week, so it was achievable.
oh well - couple weeks off from crits for now, nothing i'm interested in for the next two weekends, then doing that mtb race and state championship crit the following week.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Mon, 06/12/2017 - 20:28
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

Not sure where else to put this, but be careful out there. Casey was a good friend and one of the most experienced racers I knew. Apparently it happened in a flash.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Wed, 06/28/2017 - 11:59
aerobear
aerobear's picture
(Reply to #1169)

Wintage Townie wrote:
Not sure where else to put this, but be careful out there. Casey was a good friend and one of the most experienced racers I knew. Apparently it happened in a flash.

saw that on our mutual friend's feed. extremely sad :( just so surprising when shit like that happens, not something we're even considering when we're lining up for a race..

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Wed, 06/28/2017 - 23:02
aerobear
aerobear's picture

state champ crit was today.. showing was pretty bad last year due to the heat. this year we had literally twice as many people, so that was good. field included a lady from the national team (WC team pursuit squad, olympic silver medalist, etc), so that was pretty intimidating. Luckily with about 20 minutes to go, my teammate got into a break with her and two other riders.

best part of crits = when your teammates in the break and you don't have to keep throwing out the attacks. with 4 up the road, myself and my teammates didnt do much. once it was clear, a couple teammates tried to break away from our group in the last laps, but were chased back by the few others still holding out for hope.

teammate got 2nd in a fairly close sprint, won the state champ jersey (since olympian isnt a CO resident). i was gonna try to lead a teammate out for the field sprint, but we just couldnt get set up, no one was on my wheel, then my teammate came around and someone was on her wheel and i couldnt get them off, so i just went long and did a 45 second 500w effort to make sure no one else was gonna get that $40 prize for 5th.
it worked, had about a bike length of a gap across the line.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Sun, 07/09/2017 - 22:45
Roundabout
Roundabout's picture

smiley

Mon, 07/10/2017 - 12:51
bobbythehawk
bobbythehawk's picture

nice amy! are you back into racing road/crits? seemed like you were kinda over it

i'm a few points away from cat 2. I want to just get it over with so I can start getting hammered by the fast guys/gals, but it's fun being a factor in every race. The season is winding down now though, so who knows if i'll get any more results.

Tue, 07/11/2017 - 01:28
mdilthey
mdilthey's picture

Hey Roadies,

My aunt drinks Hammer Perpetuem on century rides and I am thinking I need a similar thing. Here's my problem on any ride over 80 miles:

-Don't eat enough calories mid-ride and bonk

OR

-Eat something that hurts my very sensitive stomach and feel sick the whole ride

I need something calorie-dense that will keep me moving, but I need something that is extremely easy to digest. Any solid food or liquid food suggestions?

Thanks folks

26/M/41t N/W

Wed, 07/12/2017 - 11:04
crabbi
crabbi's picture

make your own bars.

dates
cashews/almonds
honey/agave nectar
+ whatever else you want. when it's not super hot here, i like chocolate chips and dried cherries.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
if you're here, you probably fucked up somewhere along the line.

Wed, 07/12/2017 - 11:32
jdsmooth
jdsmooth's picture

Def give liquid food a try. I only dabble in it on ≥24h rides, but my friend uses Tailwind all the time. I also know riders who mix their own; easy to source all the ingredients. Mostly glucose + electrolytes.
My personal favs for long rides are gummy candies, fruit leather, diluted + salted fruit juice, and store-brand Adult Nutrition.
On ≥90m rides I consume a few calories every 20m. Frequent, little bites.

Five-foot drops at speed on unstable terrain? Yep.

Wed, 07/12/2017 - 12:14
BabbyMatt
BabbyMatt's picture

Never tried anything in the bottles, usually just water or an electrolyte tab for me. Bananas seem pretty easy on my stomach. I like dried apricots, dates, and figs too. Other than that, its shot blocks and gels for me usually. Once, I brought a sandwich bag full of goldfish. Maybe not as high a glycemic index, but the salt was nice. I've also had some good luck with Allen Lim's rice cakes. I know some folks make their own gel and put it in a squeezy plastic container of some sort, too.

The official jury seems to be out on carbo loading still, but I feel like the biggest difference is made by how much I eat the day or two before the ride. I've done ~90 mile rides, part of which being a race-pace group ride (Swami's) with only a gel or two and been OK at the end, but only because I'd eaten a crap ton of rice & potatoes the days before.

Wed, 07/12/2017 - 13:09
Roundabout
Roundabout's picture

When I was road racing I had good luck with a big bowl of overnight oats w/ chia seeds, fruit, and almond butter 3+ hours before the ride. In terms of electrolytes/calories during, your body really can't absorb more than 300cal/hr, which comes down to a bottle with a current gen electrolyte mix (try them to find which agree with your system, I like skratch and osmo best, newer formula clif is okay too) and a bar/most of a bar (I find larabars easiest to down, then bonk breaker) or a gel (my body hates these so I don't ever use gels). Shot bloks are also nice as you can train/time yourself to eat one every 10 minutes, so then you finish a pack every hour and have a small but constant flow of carbs in your system throughout the hour. I've also raced with a ziploc of gluten-free peanut butter cookies before and had good results, so just try a few things on med-length rides and see what agrees with your body.

If I know I'm going to be out for a long ride and refilling bottles or taking on new bottles with water, I'll fill one of my bottles with 2-3x the electrolyte mix. I then take small swigs from it and wash down with the water bottles, allowing the concentrated mix bottle to last the full 2-3 hours as I replenish with fresh water. Other option is to just carry some of the single use Skratch tubes or a nuun tab in a small ziplock.

Wed, 07/12/2017 - 13:42
mdilthey
mdilthey's picture

Thanks folks, appreciate all the options. I'm gonna buy a whole buncha different stuff and start testing. Date-based chia seed bars are something I've had before and really liked, might be a great option for me.

Gonna try Tailwind out too. Thanks!

26/M/41t N/W

Wed, 07/12/2017 - 14:42
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture

I know there's randos out there that train themselves to be able to stomach mickey D's shakes because fuck it, it's a lot of calories at once.

Wed, 07/12/2017 - 19:20
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture

Jack In The Box has a great duo: large shamrock/seasonal shake, and large curly fries

~1600 calories that balance each other's flavors and textures

like you can use one to help you eat the other

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Wed, 07/12/2017 - 20:56
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture
(Reply to #1181)

mdilthey wrote:
Eat something that hurts my very sensitive stomach and feel sick the whole ride

Hammer products are among those somethings for a lot of people

the people for whom it works often join the cult, wear the branded spandex, and buy into the system of products that includes everything but woo copper magnet bracelets

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Wed, 07/12/2017 - 20:59
aerobear
aerobear's picture
(Reply to #1182)

bobbythehawk wrote:
nice amy! are you back into racing road/crits? seemed like you were kinda over it

i'm a few points away from cat 2. I want to just get it over with so I can start getting hammered by the fast guys/gals, but it's fun being a factor in every race. The season is winding down now though, so who knows if i'll get any more results.

i still love crits. but yeah, mostly i just want to mtb.

@mdilthey, if you have a fragile stomach, i dont know if perpetuem or tailwind is for you. perpetuem gives me the farts on rides. not kidding. its painful.

some nutritionists warn people to be careful not to mix your hydration with your food, as then youre not getting the hydration you need. i dont know how true that is, just something i heard - basically dont fill up your bottles with calories.
i am also pretty sensitive to pretty much any drink mix. i prefer just plain water.

for me, if i'm not racing, i just stop to eat. its always easier on my stomach that way and ill chew it more and get more down. i'm too lazy to make my own stuff. i dig the pro bar bites and the new nut butter cliff bars for off the shelf stuff.
fig newtons are another good convenience store item that's a mix of quick sugar and slower digesting stuff.

if you use a gps device, it can also help to set a food reminder every 30-45 minutes. garmins and i imagine some other devices have this in the options under alerts.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Thu, 07/13/2017 - 00:23
Petr5
Petr5's picture
(Reply to #1183)

Have you tried larabars? Those have always been really good to my stomach on big days out. https://www.larabar.com/our-products/larabar

Sneaky Viking wrote:
"Your bike sucks and we have a team of biased experts to pseudo-scientifically test that hypothesis, all in blue shirts."

Thu, 07/13/2017 - 03:40
aerobear
aerobear's picture
(Reply to #1184)

Petr5 wrote:
Have you tried larabars? Those have always been really good to my stomach on big days out. https://www.larabar.com/our-products/larabar

i had a hard time with larabars. i think i kept accidentally buying ones with walnuts in them, which my mouth hates (gets all irritated with walnuts, pistachios, and a few other nuts).

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Thu, 07/13/2017 - 14:48
mdilthey
mdilthey's picture

Two suggestions for larabars, okay. Will try it.

I'm not looking for maximum performance or anything. Just enough to prevent a bonk. I know those shotblox gummies work great for me so I'm going to keep using those.

I will be able to eat a real meal afterwards. I just want to keep myself going!

26/M/41t N/W

Thu, 07/13/2017 - 17:03
liquify
liquify's picture

I like the new cliff bars with whatever inside them-peanut butter one is good. They are pricey, though.
and larabars are pretty solid, too. Definitely not as dry/way more edible than regular cliff bars. Worked for my stomach, too.
And fig newtons when I can remember to buy them, but not eat them for snacks. they certainly pack in the calories.

Thu, 07/13/2017 - 17:26
crabbi
crabbi's picture

my jam is to just wait till interbike and get enough foodstuffs to last a season.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
if you're here, you probably fucked up somewhere along the line.

Thu, 07/13/2017 - 18:13
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture

https://www.amazon.com/Sezme-Sesame-Snaps-40-gram-Pack/dp/B000F3OERW

there's nothing easier to eat, the energy boost is immediate, and it's pretty evenly split fat/sugar

also extremely hard to beat for caloric density (butter?)

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Thu, 07/13/2017 - 18:37
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

Hammer stuff makes me sick. I am never sure how anyone can eat it, although I guess some people's gut biome tolerates it. It was the original reason why I started buying Skratch. Say what you will about their fucking Tollhouse cookie mix and shit, they actually made a product which seemed to do what it claimed without giving people gut rot.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Thu, 07/13/2017 - 21:39
Blakey
Blakey's picture
(Reply to #1190)

JUGE FREDD wrote:
https://www.amazon.com/Sezme-Sesame-Snaps-40-gram-Pack/dp/B000F3OERW

there's nothing easier to eat, the energy boost is immediate, and it's pretty evenly split fat/sugar

also extremely hard to beat for caloric density (butter?)

these are my favourite:

Looks like they're sold in the US under Loucks. (and you get a cinnamon option!)

Thu, 07/13/2017 - 22:25
BabbyMatt
BabbyMatt's picture

Bah, signed up for an omnium this weekend and just saw the start sheet for the TT. It's me, three of my teammates, and a guy from my town I've ridden with a couple times . Hope the turnout for the crits is better.

Fri, 07/14/2017 - 00:40
bobbythehawk
bobbythehawk's picture

for hydro/electrolytes scratch is pretty great. I'm sensitive and can handle that stuff (it doesnt make my butt go boom)

really like born energy multi-carbo for cals

i don't like eating on the bike, so in the bottle is good. That stuff digests easy, and is purple!

Fri, 07/14/2017 - 02:29
bobbythehawk
bobbythehawk's picture
(Reply to #1193)

aerobear wrote:
i still love crits.

its basically all I want to do anymore. and track. and MTB.

Fri, 07/14/2017 - 02:32
crabbi
crabbi's picture
(Reply to #1194)

bobbythehawk wrote:
aerobear wrote:
i still love crits.

its basically all I want to do anymore. and track. and MTB.

come to southern california

Sneaky Viking wrote:
if you're here, you probably fucked up somewhere along the line.

Fri, 07/14/2017 - 09:28
rauce
rauce's picture

Crits and track are where it's at!

Jacques and I did a late night crit last weekend and he won the road bike race and was 2nd in the fixed race. I hung on for dear life in the road bike race which was good cuz I was the only non Cat 1/2/3 left after the first lap. Didn't have my track bike set up to do the fixed crit, but maybe next time.

Tuesday night crits have been going well for me in the fast race and I'll be racing a crit next Saturday and hoping to get a good result in the Cat 4 race.

Fri, 07/14/2017 - 12:48
BabbyMatt
BabbyMatt's picture

I won a crit today but... it was 7 from my team in a field of 9, so not quite sure if it counts. One teammate attacked from the gun, one of the two guys not on our team took a hard pull a few laps in, so I countered it and bridged up to the guy OTF, and then we just rode around in circles 'til we lapped everyone. He said I could have this one, so yay.

Fri, 07/14/2017 - 17:18
dmotobear
dmotobear's picture

Just got my cat 3 upgrade. Finally in the ultimate cat.

Sat, 09/02/2017 - 21:05

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