Endpoint bikes thread

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Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

When I says short I mean like a 26 hardtail. Like my flash 26 with 650b squeezed in there. Feels good.

100mm fork. This would be a race bike not a party bike.

When I say 44 or lefty in mean I would offer BOTH as an option. Most bikes would be 44 of course.

Stack really only gets out of control on 29ers with lefty anyway

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 06:18
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture

stack gets outta control on 29ers with grownup forks period

keep the HT pretty much as short as you can get away with given the taper

don't go overboard on the chainstay shortness, sure have the ST miter pushed into the DT, but no need to get shorter than 41cm on a 29er

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 06:24
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

I'm talking about a xc bike that is 650b in most sizes.

Not a fat boy fork 29er with a goofy dropper post. Reading comprehension or gtfo

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 10:02
bward1028

Man I wish this first bike was something I was at all interested in. The concept is great but there are a few small things that kill the nascent boner I was having for it.
Hardtail is cool too but just doesn't fit my riding.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 11:31
NOVELTYNAME
NOVELTYNAME's picture

what color are the decals?
edit: serious questions ONLY

"Folks want options!"

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:19
akasnowmaaan
akasnowmaaan's picture

lol

Should have said it was just a cross check with different geometry. - Todd

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:58
balonya
balonya's picture
(Reply to #157)

akasnowmaaan wrote:
How much can these builds be customized?
Or, if you can just plain leave parts off?
Or, say, sell the frameset, wheels, and gruppo thrown in a box and we take care of the rest?

For example, the only bars that fit me are Salsa. They're 46 c-to-c, which is still slightly less than shoulder width for me. The only bar that's wider is a Nitto Noodle.

If you can't, then that's OK, I can do what I always do and flip the stuff I don't use. But it would be nice if you had something inbetween the frameset and full bike.

I had questions along this line too.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:06
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

Mods to spec are no problem when it comes to contact points.

Most average alloy stuff is close enough in price it makes little difference to me.

Bike will come completely unbuilt except headset and bb cups installed

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:32
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

Decal will be black/white

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:33
imoscardotcom
imoscardotcom's picture

perhaps DQ, but was it ever covered/said what the tubing will be?

edit- for tarckpoint bike 1.0

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:36
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture
(Reply to #161)

bradencbc wrote:
I'm talking about a xc bike that is 650b in most sizes.

Not a fat boy fork 29er with a goofy dropper post. Reading comprehension or gtfo

super short chainstays turn it into more of a fuckaround bike than vanilla xc pretty quick

keeping the front end down isn't super hard, but the way it makes the bike unforgiving of line choice is a pain if you wanna do more miles than rad-getting

anyway if you wanna keep this a series of nerd dream bikes, dropper posts are where all the nerdlove is right now

also you're gonna need to start talkinbout HTA

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:36
deadforkinglast
deadforkinglast's picture

Shut up, Fred. I want a 650b with short-ass chain stays and an angleset-able 44mm headtube. I am into the dropper post thing. That's totally where xc bikes are going with all the lightweight, short travel options being announced. Would love a 650 hardtail with short stays and a dropper post. Would ride all day.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:40
akasnowmaaan
akasnowmaaan's picture
(Reply to #163)

bradencbc wrote:
Mods to spec are no problem when it comes to contact points.

Most average alloy stuff is close enough in price it makes little difference to me.

Bike will come completely unbuilt except headset and bb cups installed

PERFECT.

Should have said it was just a cross check with different geometry. - Todd

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:49
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture
(Reply to #164)

deadforkinglast wrote:
Shut up, Fred. I want a 650b with short-ass chain stays and an angleset-able 44mm headtube. I am into the dropper post thing. That's totally where xc bikes are going with all the lightweight, short travel options being announced. Would love a 650 hardtail with short stays and a dropper post. Would ride all day.

smiley

how short do you wanna go? under 15"?

you could prob get away with that at your height but I sure couldn't unless it was gonna be a "freeride hardtail" or whatever people are calling bikes like the honzo

nice thing about using different size wheels across the range is that braden has an easy excuse for the bigger bikes to have less-short chainstays

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:42
deadforkinglast
deadforkinglast's picture

Under 15" is a dj bike. Even I would probably be sitting behind the rear axle. 16" would probably be ideal if the clearance could work out. I suspect that tire clearance will limit the chain stay to 16.25" or so.

I also suspect that Braden is wishing he hadn't told us about this just yet. But since you did...let stalk hta and bb height.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:55
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture
(Reply to #166)

match avatar wrote:
bradencbc wrote:
I'm talking about a xc bike that is 650b in most sizes.

Not a fat boy fork 29er with a goofy dropper post. Reading comprehension or gtfo

super short chainstays turn it into more of a fuckaround bike than vanilla xc pretty quick

keeping the front end down isn't super hard, but the way it makes the bike unforgiving of line choice is a pain if you wanna do more miles than rad-getting

anyway if you wanna keep this a series of nerd dream bikes, dropper posts are where all the nerdlove is right now

also you're gonna need to start talkinbout HTA

I'm trying really hard not to be a complete snarky ass to this but come the fuck on Fred... I have been know to race a bike from time to time and my current bike has 16.7" stays with 650bx2.25 squeezed in there (anything shorter than that is not even really possible anyway). Please save your condescending Sheldon Brown bullshit for something you have actually spent some real time doing and not reading about.

Also, fuck a dropper post so fucking hard on anything with less than 5" of travel. If you put that shit on a hardtail you look like a complete turd.. the best argument for it's advantages are moot.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 16:07
motorbacon
motorbacon's picture

fucking shit. considering cancelling the recent order and grabbing one of these framesets. All pending ETT for the 62.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 16:11
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

HTA around 70
BB height around 30.5 with 2.25 tires.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 16:12
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture
Sat, 04/27/2013 - 19:44
aerobear
aerobear's picture

Braden - found your email finally. Got caught in an unrelated filter and skipped the inbox.

The image for the 56 seems to be lacking the head tube length..

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 16:40
halbritt
halbritt's picture

TT for the 54 is a 4mm too short.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 16:51
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

aerobear wrote:
Braden - found your email finally. Got caught in an unrelated filter and skipped the inbox.

The image for the 56 seems to be lacking the head tube length..

I should not have even put TT/HT on there. Stack/reach. Go look again.

The stack is on par with that of a normal forked road bike with a 180mm integrated headtube. Actual headtube heights are shorter because of external headset and taller a2c fork.

halbritt wrote:
TT for the 54 is a 4mm too short.

Reach is 1cm shorter than your 54 caad, stack is 2cm higher.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 17:15
imoscardotcom
imoscardotcom's picture

seems I got missed with my first question, but what tubing is being used for coffee grinder? just curious

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 17:15
ergott
ergott's picture

Just checking, but stack is before top of headset, but including bottom. What numbers are you using for the headset? What's the BB drop?

If someone on here did it, I'd probably like it. Since it was done by someone I don't know, they're a fucking idiot.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 17:41
anomaly
(Reply to #175)

bradencbc wrote:
Next question for the peanut gallery...

Consider this a focus group line of questions. Tarck is afterall the target demographic of Endpoint... except Bbill and Biek of course. lulz

Next frame I am thinking is this:
Steel racy hardtail
Using Paragonpoly dropout 142 thru axle or standard
44mm headtube or Lefty headtube
Steel (of course)
Threaded or PF30 bb
SHORT chainstays
short headtube
lazer etched graphics on raw steel with tinted or clear powder coat

Here's the hook:

XS 26"
S-M-M/L 27.5"
L-XL-XXL 29"

What do you guys think? I guess this is more directed at the XC bros on here but for you Kona Honzo types feel free to chime in and pass along feed back from anyone you know that would be into this type of thing.

Don't bother with the small bikes. M and above in 29". 44mm HT. If not doing BB92 then do a threaded BB. Direct Mount FD. 142 rear. Mounts for a dropper. Copy the Spot Honey Badger geometry and if you can make the chainstays shorter and you'll have a bike I will buy.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:41
anomaly
(Reply to #176)

bradencbc wrote:
match avatar wrote:
bradencbc wrote:
I'm talking about a xc bike that is 650b in most sizes.

Not a fat boy fork 29er with a goofy dropper post. Reading comprehension or gtfo

super short chainstays turn it into more of a fuckaround bike than vanilla xc pretty quick

keeping the front end down isn't super hard, but the way it makes the bike unforgiving of line choice is a pain if you wanna do more miles than rad-getting

anyway if you wanna keep this a series of nerd dream bikes, dropper posts are where all the nerdlove is right now

also you're gonna need to start talkinbout HTA

I'm trying really hard not to be a complete snarky ass to this but come the fuck on Fred... I have been know to race a bike from time to time and my current bike has 16.7" stays with 650bx2.25 squeezed in there (anything shorter than that is not even really possible anyway). Please save your condescending Sheldon Brown bullshit for something you have actually spent some real time doing and not reading about.

Also, fuck a dropper post so fucking hard on anything with less than 5" of travel. If you put that shit on a hardtail you look like a complete turd.. the best argument for it's advantages are moot.

Braden, by your own admission you are fucking slow going downhill. Listen to those of us who are not. You are required to put mounts for a dropper on there.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:46
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

Touche. I have ridden dropper post bikes down steep hills way to fast and had a ton of fun and scared myself silly and I totally get the appeal. But no dropper post in the world is going to make an aggressive XC setup magically handle like an all mountain bike.

This is not the bike for people who race enduros, idolize Marc Weir, and do 100 milers in actual mountains. There are already tons of bikes for that. Many of them are fun as shit awesome party machines.

This is the bike I want to ride until my lungs burst into flames and legs give out on the kind of groomed and flowy single track that forces you to pedal 95% of the time rather than just 50%.

And for the record I'm lowest when the risk of injury goes up. A dropper post does not trump an overly healthy fear of personal injury.

And I call shenanigans on the notion that anything bigger than a 14" frame is best served by big wheels on all trails. Out at QBP and Cannondale dealer camp all those fancy 29'ers I rode were indeed badass on all the trails around Ogden and Park City. But back home on VERY different trails I'm just not into it. My 26" and 650b just suit me better and I'm personally faster on either bike than I have ever been on a 29er.

For each bike we roll out we're going to do some demo bikes that get passed around the country. I'll make sure you are first in line to have it delivered to your door. I'm not saying you will but you MIGHT eat your words.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 20:54
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

ergott wrote:
Just checking, but stack is before top of headset, but including bottom. What numbers are you using for the headset? What's the BB drop?

Those drawings do show stack below upper cup. That's not a truly accurate image. The stack/reach numbers are correct to where the upper bearing will be.
Drop is 70mm

imoscardotcom wrote:
seems I got missed with my first question, but what tubing is being used for coffee grinder? just curious

Tubing profile will be 8/5/8. Surlyish type stuff is usually 9/6/9. Lighter would be significantly more expensive. Good middle ground and what the guy at Elephant uses for most builds. As we get closer to actual production we'll nail down any changes for big boy sized bikes. To keep them nice and stiff.

I'm having my doubts about 1 thing... should I just bite the bullet and do a 44mm headtube on Coffee Grinder bike?

Am I making a big mistake not allowing for use of a tapered Carbon fork option?

Also, brake routing... I'm leaning towards using stops for minimal brake housing but I can see the argument for full housing with both Sram and Shimano pushing for hydro road stuff.

Would cable stops be a deal breaker for anyone?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 21:20
jamey
jamey's picture

Let me know if you need a demo person in Colorado

truckdoug "never turn down free beer, dont stick your dick where you wouldnt put your face, and always ride shimano"

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 21:18
crowding
crowding's picture
(Reply to #180)

Quote:
Also, brake routing... I'm leaning towards using stops for minimal brake housing but I can see the argument for full housing with both Sram and Shimano pushing for hydro road stuff.

I'm at least a little bit apprehensive about getting into a dick road bike now with hydros right around the corner

I've seen some hose guides that can take an insert (housing endcap with a flange) to work with housing, would be a properly homercar solution

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 02:10
jeffro
jeffro's picture

I'd go hose guides and full housing if it won't pooch the brake feel, personally.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 21:54
oogens
oogens's picture

Re: dropper post, I think it makes shit tons of sense on an Xc hardtail. Keep that saddle sky high, and give yourself a little wiggle room on the bumpy parts. I've seen some dudes struggle with going off curbs, and with the advent of lightweight shoppers (ks is gonna make a 360g cf 4" post), and will help keep it bike nerd chic.

The rest sounds good. I'd still be leery of going short on the stays just because my old tassajara is stuck in some shitty purgatory between Xc and party bike, where it's just shit at everything, but if you feel you have the geo proven on some other platform it should be good

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 23:05
ergott
ergott's picture

Will the tapered fork drastically change the price?

I think the design of the fork is just as important as whether or not it's tapered. If were're talking about Enve (I know we're not), I'd say tapered. Depends on if the fork manufacturer knows how to take advantage of the extra real estate and make a stiffer front end. Helps with braking.

If someone on here did it, I'd probably like it. Since it was done by someone I don't know, they're a fucking idiot.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 23:37
Blakey
Blakey's picture

Tapered appears to be the future. There will be plenty of options in full carbon tapered disc forks compared to almost none in non taper full carbon disc, and you can always run a non tapered fork in there if you choose with a reducer or a cane creek with a 1 1/8" lower setup.

PVD did a pretty lo pro tapered HT design that doesn't look massive in steel. ... googling... http://www.peterverdone.com/?p=327

Edit: So if a tapered steel fork from Elephant increases the price a lot, then leave it straight, use a taper HT and supply a CC headset to suit, then when the owner wants to switch to a tapered carbon fork, just change out the lower.

I'd stick with full hose runs to allow for future hydros or an end to end sealed cable setup.

Sidenote: Is it worth splitting these threads into model specific ones to clean up the discussion? Keep the coffee grinder in one, the HT in another, the ??? in yet another.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 00:23
Larry Winget
Larry Winget's picture

I'd say the head tube question depends on what you're going for geometry-wise. Look at fork rake and a-to-c ballpark and see if there are any compelling tapered options available.

For what this bike is intended to be I think the fork is going to be a real selling point, not something to be "upgraded".

The Pitbull of Personal Development®

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 01:17
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture
(Reply to #186)

bradencbc wrote:
I'm trying really hard not to be a complete snarky ass to this but come the fuck on Fred... I have been know to race a bike from time to time and my current bike has 16.7" stays with 650bx2.25 squeezed in there (anything shorter than that is not even really possible anyway).

lol when you said "SHORT chainstays" I assumed you meant a full inch shorter than that, the only limit is yourself (and if you go nuts, pusher compatibility)

425mm with 650b and mountain cranks is normal with zero shenanigans required, with a little tube bending and mitering tricks you could go waaaaay further and still have a DM FD

hell just some thoughtfulness in design is required to get that short with a 29 x 2.25 these days (deda chainstays, compounding the ST/BB miter into the DT, and a DM FD to avoid clamp interference)

bradencbc wrote:
Please save your condescending Sheldon Brown bullshit for something you have actually spent some real time doing and not reading about.

I have been known to ride the everliving shit out of a bike from time to time in a wide variety of sobrieties, easily 7000 miles in the last year with at least 10% dirt

bradencbc wrote:
HTA around 70
BB height around 30.5 with 2.25 tires.

sounds good, numbers are with a 100mm fork inclusive of 25% sag?

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 03:37
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture
(Reply to #187)

bradencbc wrote:
imoscardotcom wrote:
seems I got missed with my first question, but what tubing is being used for coffee grinder? just curious

Tubing profile will be 8/5/8. Surlyish type stuff is usually 9/6/9. Lighter would be significantly more expensive. Good middle ground and what the guy at Elephant uses for most builds. As we get closer to actual production we'll nail down any changes for big boy sized bikes. To keep them nice and stiff.

going with mostly Verus HT 8/5/8 all around is a good choice, OX plat would double your materials cost

bradencbc wrote:
I'm having my doubts about 1 thing... should I just bite the bullet and do a 44mm headtube on Coffee Grinder bike?

Am I making a big mistake not allowing for use of a tapered Carbon fork option?

I know that feel, the whisky/generic fork with the alu steerer really isn't *that* bad, but the modern tapered forks are sure as shit better and there really is never gonna be another non-steel straight steerer option

a stock steel option is gonna look somewhat goofy with a 44mm HT, really no way around that

you're just gonna have to pick something and yolo, somebody's gonna be butthurt no matter what you pick but I really doubt it's gonna be an actual sticking point when it's time to reach for the wallet, the bike is the bike

bradencbc wrote:
Also, brake routing... I'm leaning towards using stops for minimal brake housing but I can see the argument for full housing with both Sram and Shimano pushing for hydro road stuff.

Would cable stops be a deal breaker for anyone?

depends on what the shift cable routing looks like and whether the caliper is on the seatstay or chainstay

with top routed shifty bits and a chainstay caliper, you could put both cable stops and hose guides on the DT

if it's a seatstay caliper, it's a lot harder to put both types on the TT without major snag problems

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 03:16
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture
(Reply to #188)

Blakey wrote:
PVD did a pretty lo pro tapered HT design that doesn't look massive in steel. ... googling... http://www.peterverdone.com/?p=327

http://shop.18bikes.co.uk/products.php?plid=m21b0s525p1397
http://forums.mtbr.com/frame-building/tapered-head-tube-development-821609.html

but it doesn't end up making as big a difference aesthetically as you'd think, all it really does is give you back the external cup up top

the real bugbear is what the lower cup looks like when inset for a 28.6 straight steerer, and tapering the HT doesn't change that at all

Blakey wrote:
Edit: So if a tapered steel fork from Elephant increases the price a lot

tapered steel forks are not a thing, a 28.6" straight steel steerer only starts to sweat on shit like 36er forks (and there you just use a truss, because beefing up the steerer would just move more flex to the blades)

Blakey wrote:
then leave it straight use a taper HT and supply a CC headset to suit, then when the owner wants to switch to a tapered carbon fork, just change out the lower.

this is the current default for such things

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 03:26
Blakey
Blakey's picture
(Reply to #189)

match avatar wrote:
tapered steel forks are not a thing

Thought so, I'd never seen one. It's only a matter of time before someone forces it though. I'm guessing NAHBS2014 for a vsalad user.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 03:43
Patch
Patch's picture

The 650b would be most interesting with a tapered carbon fork atmo.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 03:55
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture
(Reply to #191)

bradencbc wrote:
Near final geo for Coffee Grinder

looks great

my only itch would be for a steeper HTA on the biggest size or two

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 04:01
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

Cable routing will be exposed dt shifter, traditional road
Brake will be under top tube full housing.

Sticking with 1-1/8 ht after sleeping on it. I think most people buying this frame will appreciate the steel fork more than a tapered china carbon

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 09:59
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture
(Reply to #193)

match avatar wrote:
woooooorrrrrdddddssssss

7k that's nothing to sneeze at I know. Not 20 hour weeks but probably at least 1.5k more than I did last year. I WISH I had as much time to ride as you do. But seriously, how much of that was racing 1/2/3 crits? How much was racing competitively in sport/cat2 xc races? You do a bunch of riding that I don't do and that's totally cool. We are two VERY different types of riders and that is totally cool. When I'm ready to do the 650b go wherever touring, powerline cut riding, hauling firewood, partymachine I'll be listening to your input intently. But here's the thing you're not buying either of these bikes (and you're not the target consumer anyway).

I don't every try to come of as the authority on something I know nothing about.... I'm not going to tell you how to set up your fredsled any more than I would tell Ray what he should do with a 5" travel bike for getting far more rad than me. For everything in the cycling world I consider myself an authority on there are at least 5 I frankly don't know jack about.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 10:54
ergott
ergott's picture

China carbon, but with a decent name backing it.

http://www.kinesis.com.tw/FORKS/dc42.php

If someone on here did it, I'd probably like it. Since it was done by someone I don't know, they're a fucking idiot.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 11:59
Patch
Patch's picture

Alu steerer tho?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 12:04
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

Yeah... I'm just not going to worry about it. I'll offer a Whiskey #5 fork as an "upgrade". It's only $150 more at retail anyway.

Almost done with pricing on partial builds and completes.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 12:42
halbritt
halbritt's picture

FWIW Deda makes a tapered steel head tube (and Ti as well).

Maybe on version 2.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 14:22
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

It's not for lack of options... it's more the wonky factor with steel fork vs actual desire for tapered carpet fiber fork.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:00
aerobear
aerobear's picture

A carbon fiber fork upgrade is definitely something i'd be into. I'm still kinda on the fence over whether I want something this nice as a rain bike but I guess I better decide soon.

Also got a customer at my shop who is looking for something like that - steel, disc brake, carbon fork, 105 build.. Might be something I'd mention to him as it gets a little closer to finalizing. Haven't been able to find him something that matches up to all the criteria he wants thus far. (And we definitely don't sell anything that meets the criteria). Might be a little out of his price range though.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:24
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

I just emailed pricing on build kits to everyone who has responded thus far.

Left off the carbon upgrade but if you want the Whiskey non tapered fork add $85 to f/f price

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:33

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