Juan Pelota Finally Caves

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petit jong cat
petit jong cat's picture
(Reply to #51)

deadforkinglast wrote:
Scott, I'm saving that list for future reference.


Top Finishers of the Tour de France Tainted by Doping via the NYTimes

here's a graphical representation of that list. I don't even...

teepz wrote:
ive never wanted to punch you in the fucking face more than i do right now, lpc

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 23:01
Larry Winget
Larry Winget's picture
(Reply to #52)

le petit cat wrote:
bradencbc wrote:
What a fucking mess this sport is.

+1

Seriously.

The Pitbull of Personal Development®

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 23:26
white folks
white folks's picture
(Reply to #53)

Smitty wrote:
There probably hasn't been a clean TDF winner, ever

ftfy

to me it's odd that most people miss the beauty in this.
these drugs don't get you high or even make you go faster
they let you suffer more, or let you recover faster so you can suffer even more the next time
i appreciate the violence of the act.

as far as lance goes
i heard a funny urban legend about him visiting a strip club in PDX
from a totally unreliable source
"this chicks' got more needle marks than vino!"
its true in my heart and thats all that matters to me

distracted by ass pain

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 00:51
teepz
teepz's picture

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 02:47
wickedwagon
wickedwagon's picture
(Reply to #55)

littletinyfish wrote:
jimmythefly wrote:
He's got a limited number of years on this earth, and I'm thinking he finally figured that he would rather stop playing their games now and just spend the rest of his days explaining how he won 7 tours, never failed a test, and fought it for 10(?) years before realizing the other side would never let it go.

This is right on.

One of the best explanations i've heard of this whole situation.

jordanpattern wrote:
BRING ME THE BINDERS OF WOMEN!

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 02:49
teepz
teepz's picture
(Reply to #56)

teepz wrote:
^^to be fair, he has tested positive, but only in B samples at a later date when real testing was available

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 02:53
donks
donks's picture

i'm really not a fan of people (including merckx) saying this is bad for cycling by bringing doping to the forefront. they're taking a big bold leap towards a clean sport by taking him down. yes it's mostly symbolic, i think it's needed.

and fuck the UCI
fuck them so hard

so fucking hard

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 03:20
NOVELTYNAME
NOVELTYNAME's picture
(Reply to #58)

Smitty wrote:
hasn't been a clean TDF winner since doping became common

they were always doping
cite: that one roleur mag with the technological and drug advancements

"Folks want options!"

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 19:19
that guy
that guy's picture
(Reply to #59)

Smitty wrote:
since doping became common

... in 1903

Bikes suck. Don't ride one.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:18
that guy
that guy's picture

Good piece here about the legal issues surrounding the decision and how it is unlikely that the evidence collected by the USADA will stay hidden.

"He said in his statement that he “will no longer address this issue, regardless of circumstances.” What Armstrong doesn’t understand, or won’t, is that it’s not up to him."

Bikes suck. Don't ride one.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:20
Shortpants
Shortpants's picture
(Reply to #61)

tehschkott wrote:
I didn't compile this myself, but from the .83 forums - who gets Lances title now? Let's look.

1999
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Alex Zülle (‘98 busted for EPO)
3. Fernando Escartín (Systematic team doping exposed in ‘04)
4. Laurent Dufaux (‘98 busted for EPO)
5. Ángel Casero (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)

2000
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
3. Joseba Beloki (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
4. Christophe Moraue (‘98 busted for EPO)
5. Roberto Heras (‘05 busted for EPO)

2001
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
3. Joseba Beloki (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
4. Andrei Kivilev
5. Igor González de Galdeano (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)

2002
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Joseba Beloki (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
3. Raimondas Rumšas (Suspended in ‘03 for doping)
4. Santiago Botero (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
5. Igor González de Galdeano (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)

2003
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
3. Alexander Vinokourov (Suspended in ‘07 for CERA)
4. Tyler Hamilton (Suspended ‘04 for blood doping)
5. Haimar Zubeldia

2004
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Andreas Kloden (Named in doping case in ‘08)
3. Ivan Basso (Suspended in ‘07 for Operacion Puerto ties)
4. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
5. Jose Azevedo (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)

2005
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Ivan Basso (Suspended in ‘07 for Operacion Puerto ties)
3. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
4. Fransico Mancebo (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
5. Alexander Vinokourov (Suspended in ‘07 for CERA)

I suspected the list looked a bit like this but fuck, seeing it all written out really bums me out about the sport.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:24
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture

I would be interested to see if there was something in the overal time/distance relationship which one could use to find improvements in doping. You'd have to control for improvements in technology and changes in the course, but we should be able to see when there are changes to both the dope available and the skill of those policing the dopers.
e.g the decrease in overall TdF times when the doping testing regime caught up temporarily a few years back.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:43
1percenttruck
1percenttruck's picture
(Reply to #63)

teach me how to douggie wrote:
in the '96 TDF there was probably at least two or three guys racing clean on accident
bought some bunk shit, lost it traveling etc..
those guys are the true heroes atmo

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 23:54
halbritt
halbritt's picture
(Reply to #64)

eric_s wrote:
I would be interested to see if there was something in the overal time/distance relationship which one could use to find improvements in doping. You'd have to control for improvements in technology and changes in the course, but we should be able to see when there are changes to both the dope available and the skill of those policing the dopers.
e.g the decrease in overall TdF times when the doping testing regime caught up temporarily a few years back.

I'm too lazy to dig it up, but there are charts that show w/kg figures and times up routes like Ventoux and Alpe d'Huez. Once epogen become commonly used in the 90s those times went down and w/kg figures went up sharply. Things settled down a bit, once a test for EPO started being used in 2001.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 23:59
Bahamontes
Bahamontes's picture
Sun, 08/26/2012 - 09:27
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture
(Reply to #66)

halbritt wrote:
eric_s wrote:
I would be interested to see if there was something in the overal time/distance relationship which one could use to find improvements in doping. You'd have to control for improvements in technology and changes in the course, but we should be able to see when there are changes to both the dope available and the skill of those policing the dopers.
e.g the decrease in overall TdF times when the doping testing regime caught up temporarily a few years back.

I'm too lazy to dig it up, but there are charts that show w/kg figures and times up routes like Ventoux and Alpe d'Huez. Once epogen become commonly used in the 90s those times went down and w/kg figures went up sharply. Things settled down a bit, once a test for EPO started being used in 2001.

Settled more after the biological passport too... good article on it.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011/03/biological-passport-effective-fight-or.html

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 19:46
biek

doper or not, one of the best cyclists ever.

merckx was doper.

pappaheugwang wrote:
u mad bro?

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 20:20
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

So was jacque antiquel... sill think Lemond was clean though. Maybe Indurain too... or at least not completely jacked up like Riis, Pantani and other late 90s bros

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 20:31
white folks
white folks's picture

agree lemond for sure. 90% on indurain.
they were just mutants
i read something recently, indurain still has a 450w threshold

distracted by ass pain

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 20:48
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

If it was not for Lemond/Indurain I probably would not care about what is happening with Lance. Kindof glad to see that whole culture that ran from 96-07 really getting put to bed properly. You can't really look back on the over the top doping years and say "never again" WITHOUT taking down Lance.

Makes you wonder if not for EPO would we be looking at Indurain as the 7 time winner and Lance as the guy who won a couple tours. Sure he was the "best" of the dopers but did that mean that he was physically the best or really no better than Ullrich but had access to a more finely tuned doping plan.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 21:25
white folks
white folks's picture

agree that he's part of a purge
but he was the prototype. the way he doped and doped for recovery, even the way he pedaled (his cadence, his pedal stroke) was the template for a hundred careers and
he pretty much replaced the eddie b "horsepower school" thought process

distracted by ass pain

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 21:31
biek

oh man i read that abstract of that paper of big mig, dude no longer rides bikes anymore but some of his stats were off the charts superhuman. 14 years later.

pappaheugwang wrote:
u mad bro?

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 21:33
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

I agree 100% but I'm still glad to see him get the same punch in the gut as his contemporaries... it's only fair that way.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 21:34
white folks
white folks's picture

also thank merciful lucifer that i havent had to deal with any guys coming into the shop tryna talk about this whole thing.

i see oclv treks in that postal paint every so often
although most of those guys have lost a bit of weight and no longer fit the size xxl replica team kit
and have now moved onto brewpub jerzeys

it's almost easy to forget how big of a role ol one ball played in the domestic bike zeitgeist

distracted by ass pain

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 21:36
white folks
white folks's picture
(Reply to #75)

biekridder wrote:
oh man i read that abstract of that paper of big mig, dude no longer rides bikes anymore but some of his stats were off the charts superhuman. 14 years later.

hey link this if you can find it
i wanna show my buddy this
he didnt believe me

distracted by ass pain

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 21:37
biek

pappaheugwang wrote:
u mad bro?

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 21:38
biek

also 28bpm resting heart rate fuu

pappaheugwang wrote:
u mad bro?

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 21:44
white folks
white folks's picture

fuuuu

distracted by ass pain

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 21:44
crabbi
crabbi's picture

indurian is riding the Las Vegas Gran Fondo next month. Lulz.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
if you're here, you probably fucked up somewhere along the line.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 22:19
white folks
white folks's picture

im not the brightest bulb in the building
but what i read from that abstract alludes to him racing clean back in the day
and his performance loss is more due to gaining mass than losing fitness due to age

distracted by ass pain

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 00:20
akasnowmaaan
akasnowmaaan's picture

I can't fucking stand Facebook (even more than usual) right now because of all the insta cycling pundits. So much hero worship and USA USA chest beating. So little perspective. Gah.

Should have said it was just a cross check with different geometry. - Todd

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 00:44
1percenttruck
1percenttruck's picture
(Reply to #82)

teach me how to douggie wrote:
also thank merciful lucifer that i havent had to deal with any guys coming into the shop tryna talk about this whole thing.

gah, really?

i work in a fucking market/cafe.

and i got the bakerbros who haven't ridden a bike since grade school spoutin' off with their atmos.

fuck it.

dude doped. got what was coming. that settled it. the entire peloton was on the same shit.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 03:14
teepz
teepz's picture

imagine if ullrich didnt train in the off season by drinking beer and snacking

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 13:31
jamey
jamey's picture

So god damn tired of everyone asking me what I think about this.

truckdoug "never turn down free beer, dont stick your dick where you wouldnt put your face, and always ride shimano"

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 09:22
Petr5
Petr5's picture
(Reply to #85)

jamey wrote:
So god damn tired of everyone asking me what I think about this.

+1
Wish I had a better answer than "gee, on the one hand..."

Sneaky Viking wrote:
"Your bike sucks and we have a team of biased experts to pseudo-scientifically test that hypothesis, all in blue shirts."

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 09:49
halbritt
halbritt's picture

I rode my bike in to work last Friday. Cruising up on the elevator with my bike and some random dude stares at my bike, looks at me, then asks, "you hear about Lance?"

Fuuu.

All I wanted to say was, "HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT JENS MOTHERFUCKING VOIGT!"

but I didn't.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 14:24
NOVELTYNAME
NOVELTYNAME's picture
(Reply to #87)

halbritt wrote:
dude stares at my bike, looks at me, then asks, "you hear about Lance?"

who?

"Folks want options!"

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 14:58
Sneaky Viking
Sneaky Viking's picture

OH FUCK DID LANCE HENRIKSEN DIE?!!! WHY GOD, WHY??????????!!!!!!

ckd wrote:
I mean, seriously. We're just a bunch of washed up bicycle burnout dipshits.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 15:12
white folks
white folks's picture

rest in peace
lance bass

distracted by ass pain

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 16:56
NoahGenda
NoahGenda's picture

The best type of fit advice is internet fit advice.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 14:10
halbritt
halbritt's picture

I'm hoping that the USADA crashes and burns because of this bullshit.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 16:21
cookietruck
cookietruck's picture

uci too

eff em all

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 17:03
cookietruck
cookietruck's picture
Tue, 08/28/2012 - 17:23
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 22:38
white folks
white folks's picture

the captain gets me
if something cannot be solved over some tecates and homemade salsa & chips
it's probably not my fuckin problem

distracted by ass pain

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 00:50
asterisk
asterisk's picture

That needs to be on a tshirt or beer cozy.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 01:08
halbritt
halbritt's picture

I am amazed at what that guy seems to know.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 01:12
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture

he's douggie²

of course he's an all-knowing mega-cad

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 02:07
Roxy
Roxy's picture
Wed, 08/29/2012 - 03:20
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture
(Reply to #100)

halbritt wrote:
I'm hoping that the USADA crashes and burns because of this bullshit.

Ross Tucker wrote:
A no-compromise attitude to doping is exactly the reason USADA launched the case, and did exactly what they were mandated to do. Aside from the fact that they were pursuing many people still active in the sport, they also represent an honest effort to clean up the sport.

May not have been the best way to go about doing it but I'm going with ends over means on this one. I'm not suggesting you feel this way but I find it interesting that people seem to read some sort of personal vendetta by USADA and WADA against Lance. Do we say the state trooper has a personal vendetta against the speeding motorist? I don't think the personal beliefs of any member of either organization are really worth considering. Their job is to evaluate athletes, identify cheats, and sanction them. They are doing their job in what is probably the best way possible given the circumstances.

They were not facing some dumb ass like Ricco or the doctor that muffed up the blood bags for Vino and Kashechkin we're talking about a highly organized team of doctors, coaches, directors, and athletes that were willing to stop at nothing to win 7 tours and took their doping practices extremely seriously and were willing to throw large amounts of money at it both during the practice as well as hiding the evidence. It reminds me of the FBI and DOJ developing RICO cases to bring down mobsters. You rarely catch the big fish with "street level" policing, no matter what the crime is. I think USADA saw this and was willing to push the envelope a bit.

Will it be shot down in an appeal? Possibly. But even if it is the end result is that Armstrong is finally outed as a cheat and future cheats are given one more big reason to question the risk to reward ratio.

I do especially like Tucker's rebuttal to the idea that "they all were doing it so he's still the best".

This will all eventually blow over and the fans will still watch cycling and ride their own bikes... in the meantime the cheats will have to think that much longer and harder on just how big a risk they want to take and the difference between doped and clean athletes will continue to narrow. I view this is a good thing.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 07:19

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