the look out honey coz im usin technology aka the garmin/powertap/srm thread

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aerobear
aerobear's picture

haven't ever seen anyone put topo maps on any of the cycling garmins. can't see them being worthwhile on the smaller units due to the small screen size.
maybe on an edge 1000? have on at work i could probably load some maps onto to see how it looks, but i don't have a micro sd card to load them on to.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Sun, 09/24/2017 - 12:57
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture
(Reply to #1502)

kmcdon wrote:
is there a particular cycling-specific garmin that does best with topo maps? I have the topo 24k maps and would like to be able to see them on my handlebar. I don't give much a shit about strava-ish features but I'd like something small instead of the gigantic gpsmap64 that I use for hiking.

you're asking for an older/smaller cell phone with GaiaGPS

battery life can be pretty outstanding with the sim card removed

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Sun, 09/24/2017 - 13:25
aerobear
aerobear's picture

FWIW pretty much every garmin i've used with mapping SUCKS to zoom in and out (which is pretty important since trails disappear when you zoom out). a smaller smart phone would be a million times better for that purpose. touching the screen on the edge 1000, it's really easy to accidentally put down pins and do other weird shit when all you wanted to do is try to get it to show the stupid +/- buttons.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Sun, 09/24/2017 - 13:30
kmcdon
kmcdon's picture

Sounds like the answer is "not worth it, deal with the gpsmap64."

I was afraid of that.

Sun, 09/24/2017 - 14:28
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture

I think that your use is more of an edge case than it should be, and I also suspect that the fact an old smartphone works so well for this that it's not really worth it for a cycling specific head unit.

Sun, 09/24/2017 - 16:26
yonderboy
yonderboy's picture

My Stages keeps blinking out with my Cateye over ANT+. I'm looking at going to the Wahoo Bolt for BTLE, since that seems to be pretty stable with my setup. About all I've found about the Bolt has been paid reviews, but it looks promising.

Fri, 02/02/2018 - 10:20
NOVELTYNAME
NOVELTYNAME's picture

Has anyone seen or used one of the lezyne computers?

"Folks want options!"

Fri, 02/02/2018 - 13:12
aerobear
aerobear's picture

@yonderboy - seems common with the cateye. so far i've read nothing but great things about the bolt. seems like it's a great deal for the price. the in hand feel reminds me a bit of a tomagotchi though.

@mig, lezyne computers seem pretty bulky and with pretty poor display resolution. i hear they're easy to use, but just look too klunky for me.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Fri, 02/02/2018 - 14:36
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture

Does the wahoo do BTLE for sensors now? It didn't early last year.

I've used the lezyne. It was fine, especially considering the price.

Fri, 02/02/2018 - 14:43
aerobear
aerobear's picture

Wahoo has done BTLE for sensors all along, just that you had no idea which protocol ti was using if it was a combo sensor and they were defaulting to ANT+ on power meters.

Pretty sure it works on BTLE now, but haven't had any reason to test the device. They've had significant firmware updates that occurred around the time the bolt came out.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Fri, 02/02/2018 - 14:50
chazzwazzer
chazzwazzer's picture

I’ve got a Bolt with Stages. Works pretty well. I like the Bolt, especially the size. I do have intermittent issues with dropping power (1-3 sec, not sure if dropped in the files or just on display), or being slow on the uptake (start pedaling and power shows up 1+ sec later), and what seems like cadence spiking (though maybe just a high sampling rate?). Since I got them both simultaneously I don’t know which problem comes from where. It’s not enough to really be upset by but still annoying. At least I didn’t buy a $1000 crank, I guess?

Fri, 02/02/2018 - 17:02
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture
(Reply to #1512)

aerobear wrote:
Wahoo has done BTLE for sensors all along, just that you had no idea which protocol ti was using if it was a combo sensor and they were defaulting to ANT+ on power meters.

Pretty sure it works on BTLE now, but haven't had any reason to test the device. They've had significant firmware updates that occurred around the time the bolt came out.

I emailed and asked, and they told me that there was no BTLE for sensors, just ANT+. I can email them again.

Fri, 02/02/2018 - 17:33
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture
(Reply to #1513)

chazzwazzer wrote:
I’ve got a Bolt with Stages. Works pretty well. I like the Bolt, especially the size. I do have intermittent issues with dropping power (1-3 sec, not sure if dropped in the files or just on display), or being slow on the uptake (start pedaling and power shows up 1+ sec later), and what seems like cadence spiking (though maybe just a high sampling rate?). Since I got them both simultaneously I don’t know which problem comes from where. It’s not enough to really be upset by but still annoying. At least I didn’t buy a $1000 crank, I guess?

You probably need to email both companies with this information, and see what happens. IME both are pretty responsive.

Fri, 02/02/2018 - 17:34
chazzwazzer
chazzwazzer's picture

Also a tiny thing on the Bolt, the buttons are concave for some reason and collect water when it’s raining. I don’t think it will be an issue long term but I tilt it up to drain them every so often.

Fri, 02/02/2018 - 19:03
aerobear
aerobear's picture
(Reply to #1515)

chazzwazzer wrote:
I’ve got a Bolt with Stages. Works pretty well. I like the Bolt, especially the size. I do have intermittent issues with dropping power (1-3 sec, not sure if dropped in the files or just on display), or being slow on the uptake (start pedaling and power shows up 1+ sec later), and what seems like cadence spiking (though maybe just a high sampling rate?). Since I got them both simultaneously I don’t know which problem comes from where. It’s not enough to really be upset by but still annoying. At least I didn’t buy a $1000 crank, I guess?

wahoo seems to have a cadence issue in general. do you see a cadence of 254? (guessing its a range of 0-255 due to being 8-bit). have seen that only in wahoo's app and on their head units.

pretty much any head unit will take 2-5 seconds to pick up. in general it is not missing data. if you just watch it, there should be an equal delay to when it stops showing data when you start coasting.

whether missing data is in the file or not - depends on the unit. i'm unsure on wahoo. with ant+, each data packet overlaps by a few seconds (it takes a few seconds for accumulated torque counts to roll over and it tracks rotations based on event count, which prevents it from seeing a gap in data and sudden high count as a spike), so something 1-3 seconds long can be backfilled when it picks up another packet. there older units didn't have the processing power to do this, but everything 810 and newer does. the stages head unit does the same thing. i ride inside occasionally in a workout room full of sensors (stationary bikes with power, kickrs that are blasting out ant+ whenever plugged in, other people riding with HR straps, etc) and it causes a lot of intereference, but always end up with 100% of the data in the file, just some drops here and there on teh display. kind of unavoidable in that kind of environment.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Fri, 02/02/2018 - 21:46
chazzwazzer
chazzwazzer's picture
(Reply to #1516)

aerobear wrote:
wahoo seems to have a cadence issue in general. do you see a cadence of 254? (guessing its a range of 0-255 due to being 8-bit). have seen that only in wahoo's app and on their head units.

pretty much any head unit will take 2-5 seconds to pick up. in general it is not missing data. if you just watch it, there should be an equal delay to when it stops showing data when you start coasting.

whether missing data is in the file or not - depends on the unit. i'm unsure on wahoo. with ant+, each data packet overlaps by a few seconds (it takes a few seconds for accumulated torque counts to roll over and it tracks rotations based on event count, which prevents it from seeing a gap in data and sudden high count as a spike), so something 1-3 seconds long can be backfilled when it picks up another packet. there older units didn't have the processing power to do this, but everything 810 and newer does. the stages head unit does the same thing. i ride inside occasionally in a workout room full of sensors (stationary bikes with power, kickrs that are blasting out ant+ whenever plugged in, other people riding with HR straps, etc) and it causes a lot of intereference, but always end up with 100% of the data in the file, just some drops here and there on teh display. kind of unavoidable in that kind of environment.

Never seen a cadence that high, no. Mostly I'll be pedaling at a cadence I know is as steady as I can go (indoors), and it'll jump 5-10 rpm. The average works out of course but I'll watch it bounce and know I didn't go from 98 to 105 to 99 in the space of five strokes. I'm curious to add my Garmin cadence sensor back in the mix, at some point.

I'll watch for the drop off delay and check my files eventually. Thanks for suggesting that and filling us in the packet timing stuff, that's good to know. I only started with this stuff in November and mostly just hand off files to my coach.

Sat, 02/03/2018 - 00:14
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture

Indoors I'd guess you're seeing some interference.

Sat, 02/03/2018 - 02:35
Shortpants
Shortpants's picture

I think I'm going to put my garmin with speed and cadence sensors on my bullit for a month. Super interested to see what comes of it.

Sat, 02/03/2018 - 13:49
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture

I put a stages on my xtracycle. The hills near my house take sikk wattz to climb with a child and groceries.

Sat, 02/03/2018 - 14:00
aerobear
aerobear's picture
(Reply to #1520)

chazzwazzer wrote:
aerobear wrote:
wahoo seems to have a cadence issue in general. do you see a cadence of 254? (guessing its a range of 0-255 due to being 8-bit). have seen that only in wahoo's app and on their head units.

pretty much any head unit will take 2-5 seconds to pick up. in general it is not missing data. if you just watch it, there should be an equal delay to when it stops showing data when you start coasting.

whether missing data is in the file or not - depends on the unit. i'm unsure on wahoo. with ant+, each data packet overlaps by a few seconds (it takes a few seconds for accumulated torque counts to roll over and it tracks rotations based on event count, which prevents it from seeing a gap in data and sudden high count as a spike), so something 1-3 seconds long can be backfilled when it picks up another packet. there older units didn't have the processing power to do this, but everything 810 and newer does. the stages head unit does the same thing. i ride inside occasionally in a workout room full of sensors (stationary bikes with power, kickrs that are blasting out ant+ whenever plugged in, other people riding with HR straps, etc) and it causes a lot of intereference, but always end up with 100% of the data in the file, just some drops here and there on teh display. kind of unavoidable in that kind of environment.

Never seen a cadence that high, no. Mostly I'll be pedaling at a cadence I know is as steady as I can go (indoors), and it'll jump 5-10 rpm. The average works out of course but I'll watch it bounce and know I didn't go from 98 to 105 to 99 in the space of five strokes. I'm curious to add my Garmin cadence sensor back in the mix, at some point.

I'll watch for the drop off delay and check my files eventually. Thanks for suggesting that and filling us in the packet timing stuff, that's good to know. I only started with this stuff in November and mostly just hand off files to my coach.

It could be a rounding error of some kind on the part of the wahoo then... In my own experience that cadence data is super reliable from the accelerator in normal usage (i.e. not rowdy mtbing or something that gets super bumpy or extremely slow/high torque stuff like a standing start). As kind of mentioned, watts and rpms aren't actually calculated by the meter, but sent out as event count and event time and accumulated torque is send along side of that, so the head unit itself makes that into power and rpm by figuring out how much torque was accumulated between events and how fast the event was. Downside is that if your cadence values seem off, seems suspicious on the power since torque is multiplied by rpm, but you're probably right that it ends up averaged out.

Not sure what wahoo's priority is set to, but on a Garmin it's actually impossible to record a cadence sensor's data on top of a power meter. It'll only record the cadence from the power meter (unless it's a hub/power tap).

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Tue, 02/06/2018 - 00:44
jamesacklin
jamesacklin's picture

DQ: I have a Lemond Revolution trainer and a Garmin head unit, and no power, cadence, HR, or speed sensors at all. I want to Zwift as cheaply as possible.

- Speed sensors are a no-go because the Revolution effectively replaces the rear wheel.
- A Stages powermeter would obviously be the best (but priciest) solution.
- Should I get the Wahoo BT/ANT+ combo cadence sensor and be done with it?

Tue, 02/06/2018 - 10:05
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture

https://support.zwift.com/hc/en-us/articles/205625165-What-do-I-need-to-start-using-Zwift-

So, like, get a power meter and a BTLE dongle (or a smartphone that will do a BTLE bridge to your compy), and get your dingle dongled with Zwifty goodness. Your trainer might do speed/cadence, in which case you don't really need a power meter. A power meter will do cadence, unless it's a wheel mounted one.

Tue, 02/06/2018 - 17:57
aerobear
aerobear's picture

sounds like you need at least a speed sensor to use it with a non smart trainer, based on the zwift article eric just posted. not sure it'll work with just trainer + cadence, since it doesn't know what gear you're in.

did a quick google search and looks like there's a #lifehack to get a speed sensor on that flywheel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UD13d66R8s

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Wed, 02/07/2018 - 00:15
Shortpants
Shortpants's picture

Given the size of a bullitt it's surprisingly hard to find a spot for a Garmin that's pretty well hidden but will still get decent connectivity

Thu, 02/08/2018 - 12:25
jamesacklin
jamesacklin's picture

Yeah, it sounds like a Stages is the way to go. Now I'll have to train with power, lol

Thu, 02/08/2018 - 13:40
aerobear
aerobear's picture
(Reply to #1526)

Shortpants wrote:
Given the size of a bullitt it's surprisingly hard to find a spot for a Garmin that's pretty well hidden but will still get decent connectivity

yeah, they work a lot better when pointed at the sky..

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Thu, 02/08/2018 - 21:47
Shortpants
Shortpants's picture

I know but pointed at the sky means it either gets stolen or worse, noticed by another messenger. Gotta keep the street cred up.

I found a random cell phone holster in the office under some papers. An old chrome one so definitely up for grabs. Threw that on an upright on the bullitt. Granted I only worked a couple hours today before I went home because it was super slow but it seemed to work alright and be inconspicuous enough to where it'll probably never get nicked.

Fri, 02/09/2018 - 02:37
yonderboy
yonderboy's picture

The Cateye refuses to pair with either one of my Stages, now. I guess it's a good thing I have a Bolt coming on Monday. I have another FTP test on the schedule for this week.

Sun, 02/11/2018 - 16:22
yonderboy
yonderboy's picture

In case anyone is interested, I figured out how to get ERG files out of Golden Cheetah onto the BOLT. You can copy the files over to the "plans" folder on the BOLT via USB, but they have to be formatted internally in a certain way. Hooray for no more hypoxic math.

The caveat I found is that the workouts have to use whole numbers (no 15s, 30s, 45s intervals), then the file Golden Cheetah exports should be accepted. If it isn't, you have to edit the file to remove the decimals. It also looks like the BOLT wants a tab-delimited file. I'm going to see if I can work on a patch for Golden Cheetah, but for now, it's a hand-edit.

Mon, 03/12/2018 - 22:08
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

QBP has a line of two new cheap GPS computers called the Miniac GPS-322 ($70) Miniac GPS-333 ($100). The cheap one is basic GPS for saving your rides, and more expensive one has Bluetooth and such. I've been without a GPS computer for a long time, using only my phone, but for the wholesale cost, I figure I will try out the 322 and report back.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Wed, 04/11/2018 - 01:58
sparksflyhigh
sparksflyhigh's picture

$70 cost or retail?

Wed, 04/11/2018 - 11:36
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

Retail. Cost will probably prove too cheap for bike shop dweebs to pass up.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Wed, 04/11/2018 - 11:53

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