the look out honey coz im usin technology aka the garmin/powertap/srm thread

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white folks
white folks's picture

i dont think i could ever do a true 60 minute test. just 20 minutes is boring as fuck

distracted by ass pain

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 22:16
halbritt
halbritt's picture
(Reply to #52)

truckdoug wrote:
i dont think i could ever do a true 60 minute test. just 20 minutes is boring as fuck

Send me the file from the test you did (halbritt at gmail dot com).

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 00:06
white folks
white folks's picture

sent it.

also im having a hard time understanding the difference between critical power profile and my fatigue resistance profile

distracted by ass pain

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 00:59
CheshireCat
CheshireCat's picture

im having a hard time grasping any of this at all. I want a coach who actually uses recovery since I seem to need a lot of it. if I ride hard a lot i can literally watch myself getting weaker and weaker.

PT coming in next week. Is it a good idea to do some pre-training testing?

-is a cat
-is a REAL doctor!

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 01:19
halbritt
halbritt's picture
(Reply to #55)

truckdoug wrote:
sent it.

also im having a hard time understanding the difference between critical power profile and my fatigue resistance profile

They're just two different ways to present the same data. Critical power as you know is a reasonably accurate representation of your best effort power at a given time interval. This data is most useful in helping you set the intensity of your workouts, but it's also useful in helping you understand your strengths. You can use a power profile chart to let you where you are in terms of W/KG for a given interval. Check out this power profile chart:

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/power-profiling.aspx

Your fatigue resistance profile can be deceptive and I wouldn't worry about it too much right now. After you've trained for a while, it could be worthwhile to help you win races. Basically, it may tell you which energy systems you have strength in. On the contrary, it may tell you which energy system you're most unadapted in. For example, if your 8m power is high compared to your 5m power, it may suggest that you have excellent fatigue resistance for VO2Max work. On the other hand, it may indicate that your 5m power is shit and that you should do some more training in that department.

Again, I wouldn't suggest worrying about either of these very much right now. Starting to train with power is a process that takes a few months. The most important thing for someone just getting started is to ascertain FTP, set some goals and amass some data such that the performance management chart starts to make sense.

If you can get to that point, you'll be doing better than 95% of the rest of the people in the world training with power. The lightbulb will come on and it will all start to make sense. Most folks get a power meter, do a few tests, and use that to meter the intensity of their workouts and that's where it ends. The PMC will allow you to plan your training with an extraordinary degree of accuracy through the season and drive power improvements across multiple seasons.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 01:31
white folks
white folks's picture

ok, that makes sense. i'll try and just log data for when winter training starts in earnest.

millin, you just need to dial in your nutrition atmo

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Tue, 09/27/2011 - 09:45
white folks
white folks's picture

little switzerland.
its a beast of a route and i suffered for my fatness
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/118778222

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Sun, 10/02/2011 - 22:12
white folks
white folks's picture

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Sun, 10/09/2011 - 16:44
halbritt
halbritt's picture

what's your average power for 20m?

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Sun, 10/09/2011 - 23:41
white folks
white folks's picture

my best so far is that first one, 299w
getting better at pacing myself
still kinda fuzzy on how i'm gonna turn any of this data into a training plan.

distracted by ass pain

Sun, 10/09/2011 - 23:49
white folks
white folks's picture

this is my current CP profile

cp by wheat flakes, on Flickr
keep in mind this is 3 20min tests and some group rides

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Sun, 10/09/2011 - 23:58
halbritt
halbritt's picture
(Reply to #62)

truckdoug wrote:
my best so far is that first one, 299w
getting better at pacing myself
still kinda fuzzy on how i'm gonna turn any of this data into a training plan.

Looks like your FTP might be around 290w. That's pretty good.

This is how you generate a training plan: You accumulate training stress like this, which gets quantified with a number called TSS (training stress score). Every ride has a TSS. A 1hr TT at FTP has a TSS of 100.

Over a period of time that score gets averaged in certain ways that gives you CTL (chronic training load) and ATL (acute training load). One is longer term average, the other is a shorter term average. CTL represents a potential increase in fitness. ATL generally represents an increase in fatigue. The difference between these is TSB (training stress balance).

It works like this: Do enough rides of the right type, mostly FTP work, to ramp your CTL up by approximately 5 TSS/d per week while keeping your TSB from getting too low (below -20). Once your CTL gets near 100, you will have reached the limit of your ability to accumulate training stress*. At that point, you can "spend" some CTL by tapering for race or you could "spend" some CTL by doing a block of VO2Max or Aerobic specific work which tend to be hard to recover from, but not generate that much training stress. All during this period, you'll be adjusting your FTP up as well.

* since all these numbers are based off of an individual's FTP, everyone that's reasonably well-adapted has about the same limit in terms of training stress. I've heard of genetically gifted athletes that can get CTL up to 120, but for most folks the max they can sustain is 90-100 or so.

I just remembered that GC has different acronyms, but they're synonymous. I'll look 'em up tomorrow.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Mon, 10/10/2011 - 03:16
white folks
white folks's picture

ok, so what is a good goal to aim for before next road season
(for ftp)

distracted by ass pain

Mon, 10/10/2011 - 10:34
halbritt
halbritt's picture
(Reply to #64)

truckdoug wrote:
ok, so what is a good goal to aim for before next road season
(for ftp)

For goals, I'd suggest focusing on CTL and training hours. If you find that you enjoy the suffering and have no problems with training volume, you'll then need to start worrying about over-training and how to manage that. Your FTP will rise as a consequence of your focus on CTL and training hours. If you're doing a lot of dedicated FTP work, you'll need to re-test and change your FTP every 6 weeks or so.

At this point, it really depends on how well-adapted you already are. Assuming you have some room for "novice gains" then you could reasonably expect a 5% increase in power with 3 months of dedicated training. You'll probably be able to get in a couple of those before next road season. You'll want to plan a little rest as well. That'll put you around 320w or around 4.15w/kg which would be a significant accomplishment.

Also, watch this:

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Mon, 10/10/2011 - 12:47
halbritt
halbritt's picture

Here you go:

LTS - Long Term Stress equivalent to CTL - Chronic Training Load
STS - Short Term Stress equivalent to ATL - Acute Training Load
SB - Stress Balance equivalent to TSB - Training Stress Balance
Skiba Bikescore equivalent to TSS - Training Stress Score

Coggan himself has stated that Bikescore is functionally equivalent to TSS. He's also expressed some displeasure about the fact that the GC dudes completely replicated the WKO+ functionality with little original input of their own.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 15:17
white folks
white folks's picture

hell i'd be salty too
but im not tryin to save the world,
i just wanna roast some dudes on carbon bikes with some steel

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Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:23
white folks
white folks's picture

so how often can i do 2x20's?
i'm hearing once a week from some bros, and then once every 2 weeks from others?
can i still do other workouts too or is that too much work?

i'd like to look at some 1-5m power stuff. thats wheres races are won IMO

shoot i'd like to do some sprint work, but im afraid the cheapass potmetal freehub body will asplode

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Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:28
halbritt
halbritt's picture

I always refer people to this article by Hunter Allen when they say "5m power wins races".

http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/Articles/the_next_level.pdf

VO2Max and sprint training aren't likely to do much good presently. Both are will stimulate a peak and both are adaptations that fade pretty quickly. You can and should do threshold work up to 3 days per week. Start doing 2x20s twice a week alternating with recovery sessions. After a few weeks of that, you can add in some SST (sweet spot training), which is 90-120m at 88% FTP or thereabouts. In addition to those three workouts, should have one very long ride (>3h) at whatever varying intensities, depending on what's comfortable. That leaves one day for being off the bike.

At some point, before the road season has started and after you've accumulated significant CTL, you'll want to do a 6 week block of VO2Max work. You'll want to do 1m work in a 3-week block. When you do that will be dependent on whether you have a weakness in that area or not. Once you've accumulated some data, you can make that determination. If you're weak, you may want to add in a block early to see what happens. If you're good enough, I'd save it until you're a few weeks out from a race that you want to target.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:12
white folks
white folks's picture

well thats good, i did 5 min hill repeats today
got two in at about 400w and then said fuck it to the other eight i had planned.
fuck those hurt

so here's my rough schedule for the rest of october
Monday, rest
Tuesday 2x20 ftp
Wednesday hour recovery spin
Thursday 2x20 ftp (alternate flat TT and newberry, weekly)
Friday hour recovery spin
Saturday off
Sunday long group r1de with cat 3 bros

distracted by ass pain

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 13:39
halbritt
halbritt's picture
(Reply to #70)

truckdoug wrote:
well thats good, i did 5 min hill repeats today
got two in at about 400w and then said fuck it to the other eight i had planned.
fuck those hurt

so here's my rough schedule for the rest of october
Monday, rest
Tuesday 2x20 ftp
Wednesday hour recovery spin
Thursday 2x20 ftp (alternate flat TT and newberry, weekly)
Friday hour recovery spin
Saturday off
Sunday long group r1de with cat 3 bros

Perfect. What's your target wattage for your 2x20s? Also, 400w is kinda high for a VO2Max interval. The goal is oxygen desaturation. You'll get more benefit out of six 5m intervals at 110-120% FTP than two at 133%.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 13:53
white folks
white folks's picture

well i think i can get 300-even if I pace myself correctly.

heh, makes sense why i didnt get anywhere with vo2 max stuff earlier this year. i'd blow myself up on one workout and not wanna do anymore for a couple weeks

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Thu, 10/13/2011 - 15:27
halbritt
halbritt's picture

If you can get 300w across both 20m intervals then my estimation of your FTP is a bit low and it's probably closer to 315.

That's pretty fucking good, btw.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 16:04
stronglight1047
stronglight1047's picture

mods please change the name of this thread so i don't get the stooges stuck in my head every time i see it. or at least call it funhouse.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 16:14
Larry Winget
Larry Winget's picture
(Reply to #74)

stronglight1047 wrote:
mods please change the name of this thread so i don't get the stooges stuck in my head every time i see it. or at least call it funhouse.

There are far worse songs to get stuck in your head.

The Pitbull of Personal Development®

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 16:33
stronglight1047
stronglight1047's picture

agreed, but i don't want to wear it out.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 17:13
white folks
white folks's picture
(Reply to #76)

halbritt wrote:
If you can get 300w across both 20m intervals then my estimation of your FTP is a bit low and it's probably closer to 315.

That's pretty fucking good, btw.

we'll see.
it'd be better if i weighed 165

distracted by ass pain

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 20:51
CheshireCat
CheshireCat's picture

still waiting for my g'damn powertap back from the wheelbuilder.
Then I can start posting in this thread. :(
For now just training with HR. lamesauce.

-is a cat
-is a REAL doctor!

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 22:40
toddistic
toddistic's picture

shouldnt we be more concerned with wattage to weight ratio?

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 23:03
white folks
white folks's picture

well i weigh 180 right now. i think 170 next march is doable

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Thu, 10/13/2011 - 23:18
aerobear
aerobear's picture
(Reply to #80)

toddistic wrote:
shouldnt we be more concerned with wattage to weight ratio?

the weight of the wattage cottage is pretty big

dont think i have any scales to weigh it

p.s. todd i changed the shower curtain liner just for u

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 23:53
CheshireCat
CheshireCat's picture

Yikes. I never realized how small I was compared to Doug. I weighed in at 146 at the end of the day clothes on at the med facility gym.
I guess it goes with the small motor I have.

Thinking of doing a Wingate power test and seeing if my sprinting still sucks

-is a cat
-is a REAL doctor!

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 13:51
halbritt
halbritt's picture

No need to do a wingate. Just get the F-ing Coggan book and check out the testing protocols.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 14:24
toddistic
toddistic's picture

max effort on wired srm put my max wattage at 1729. neato - would love to use someone else's powertap to see if wired srm is accurate.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 01:26
aerobear
aerobear's picture

todd how much do you weigh these days?

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 01:41
toddistic
toddistic's picture

180, hoping to pack on 10 lbs this off season

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 03:07
white folks
white folks's picture
(Reply to #86)

toddistic wrote:
max effort on wired srm put my max wattage at 1729. neato - would love to use someone else's powertap to see if wired srm is accurate.

if you find a powerdome cassette you can use mine, otherwise 1700w would shred the splines on the freehub body
but i was under the impression that a properly calibrated crank module was way more accurate

distracted by ass pain

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 11:06
halbritt
halbritt's picture

Not way more accurate. SRMs and Powertaps are all 3-5%

Speaking of which, I have a cassette permanently embedded into my powertap. I need to fix that.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 15:12
white folks
white folks's picture

i wish they made a PT freehub with the steel inserts like american classic.
in fact why arent all freehubs like that?

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Sat, 10/15/2011 - 23:33
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture

Fukka steel insert, just make the whole freehub body out of titanium.

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Mon, 10/17/2011 - 02:50
halbritt
halbritt's picture
(Reply to #90)

Buffalo Bill wrote:
Fukka steel insert, just make the whole freehub body out of titanium.

That wouldn't solve the dilemma that steel cogs would eat into the freehub.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Mon, 10/17/2011 - 03:32
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture
  1. it's way the fuck better on that than any aluminum shit out there
  2. why the fuck are you using a cheapass cassette on a weenie hub?

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Mon, 10/17/2011 - 03:47
white folks
white folks's picture

the pro+ isnt w/weenie hub, its the cheapest with good bearings
6700 cassette isnt cheapass, its good shifting for smallest moneys

heres yesterdays work. dunno wat happened to the second one
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/122433215
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/122433199

distracted by ass pain

Mon, 10/17/2011 - 14:05
white folks
white folks's picture

ok i have to ask
how does this thing know my cadence
no cadence sensor
wtf mane

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Mon, 10/17/2011 - 15:39
crowding
crowding's picture

it can tell by variations in torque coz no one pedals perfect circles

Mon, 10/17/2011 - 15:55
white folks
white folks's picture

ok thats what i thought

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Mon, 10/17/2011 - 16:01
white folks
white folks's picture

was concern about black helicopters n shiut

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Mon, 10/17/2011 - 16:02
halbritt
halbritt's picture

A real cadence sensor is more accurate, but whatevs. Doug, are you using 30s rolling average to help you pace yourself?

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Mon, 10/17/2011 - 16:13
white folks
white folks's picture

haha i dont know. i had someone else set up the garmin coz its a pita

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Mon, 10/17/2011 - 16:15
white folks
white folks's picture

ok rest week over, lets do this shit.
how do i set my garmin for rolling 30sec average?

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Mon, 10/24/2011 - 20:43
white folks
white folks's picture

i'd really like to see some people in here posting data and getting weird with golden cheetah

so rest week is over and im logging r!des again. this my CP file after today's r!de
i think the black line is today's data
but i don't undertstand what the red dotted line is

26 by wheat flakes, on Flickr
got school and work shit until sunday (but i'll get some easy 1 hour fartin around done)
then i can do either some 12 minute efforts up something medium steep or ???
(my local TT island will be overrun by pumpkin seeking suburbanites)

distracted by ass pain

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:43

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