spencer blog thread

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Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

The part number, BK1493, doesn't align with anything currently in the Q catalog.

Edit - Apparently this is a Surly Pack Rat.

Mfg Size: 54
Frame Type: Rigid
Fork Type: Rigid
Wheel Size: 650b
Frame Material: Steel
Fork Material: Steel
Color: Get In Green
Defined Color: Green
Front Axle: QR x 100mm
Rear Axle: QR x 135mm
Brake Type: Disc

So Surly just introduced a new 650b, rim-brake spencer with their old crummy geometry? What the fuck for? Who wants these things? And it's a replacement for the Pacer?!

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 11:49
kmcdon
kmcdon's picture

so it's like a straggler but 100% worse?

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 11:58
drwelby
drwelby's picture

yes, it's a mid trail grando

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 12:02
Face
Face's picture

Looks like it's called "pack rat"

I got that far and lost interest.

Mr. Pubes wrote:
i fear that you are so lost in your own asshole that you may never be found again. do you have a flare gun? send for help.

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 12:16
Todd
Todd's picture

how long till there is a 4,000 build of one on Prolly?

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 12:30
kmcdon
kmcdon's picture

I'm interested in this midnight special though, I've not found any pics of it.

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 12:32
jamesacklin
jamesacklin's picture
(Reply to #15407)

Tail Hook Lengthener wrote:
And it's a replacement for the Pacer?!

What the fuck? No! I was looking forward to putting together a $350 crapmobile with all this 10 speed Force I have sitting around

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 12:41
schultzor
schultzor's picture

Surly gonna surly

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 13:35
Whippin Skidz
Whippin Skidz's picture

Of course it doesn't have disc brakes. Why would they do that?

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 14:38
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture
(Reply to #15410)

Whippin Skidz wrote:
Of course it doesn't have disc brakes. Why would they do that?

This looks like the end state of a 26er LHT right as the owner is realizing it's garbage but they have no idea what to do about it yet.

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 14:53
heavymetal
heavymetal's picture

I literally can't even

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 14:57
crowding
crowding's picture

Surly is going to make lowmid trail forks that are super ugly and also only come in 1 1/8"?

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 16:01
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

On Pubes’ IG, someone wrote ‘Hey boss, you know that container that went missing in 2008? Well we just found it.’

That about sums it up.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 16:25
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

QBP removed it from the catalog. TARCK STRIKES AGAIN.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 18:16
Andrew_Squirrel
Andrew_Squirrel's picture

Disgruntled Twitter employee deletes Trump's account before they quit. Twitter quickly restores backup.
Disgruntled Surly employee adds ridiculous spencer to lineup before they quit. Surly quickly wipes spencer from QBP

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 18:32
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

I assume it just got into the catalog way too early. The only size listed was the 54, and the delivery date was Jan 29.

Frostbike is Jan 26th, so one can assume they were waiting to release then, and also for a more favorable launch than a bunch of nerds on a forum finding and sharing it until it ended up being mocked on a popular Instagram account.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 18:34
drwelby
drwelby's picture

It was on MTBR yesterday. The spencer sans picture was on a German e-tailer a month ago.

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 18:59
newellbt

while we're talkin' QBP, went to search for a suitable replacement frame pump and cot damn it they don't offer any actual frame pump sku's

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 18:59
jeffro
jeffro's picture

That rack, holy shit.

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 22:00
emor
emor's picture

"my main life goal is to have a dirtbag camper van with a bunch of bikes on it, go camping every vacation forever" -- me

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 00:10
Blakey
Blakey's picture

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=213349&page=3

pages of facepalm as kontact repeatedly fails to understand how wheels work. can't believe the other guy persisted for so long.

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 00:28
DaFROG
DaFROG's picture
(Reply to #15422)

Blakey wrote:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=213349&page=3

pages of facepalm as kontact repeatedly fails to understand how wheels work. can't believe the other guy persisted for so long.

why do you subject yourself to that shit :P

We have assembled an international voltron of geometry, marketing and metallurgy experts working around the clock and have determined that your spencer sucks

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 00:57
kmcdon
kmcdon's picture
(Reply to #15423)

emor wrote:

Out of all the things wrong with the spencer, I think most anyone can get a pass on this.

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 00:59
circuithero
circuithero's picture

But that's when you get to pull out the dead blow.

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 01:10
jamey
jamey's picture
(Reply to #15425)

Tail Hook Lengthener wrote:
On Pubes’ IG, someone wrote ‘Hey boss, you know that container that went missing in 2008? Well we just found it.’

That about sums it up.

LOL

truckdoug "never turn down free beer, dont stick your dick where you wouldnt put your face, and always ride shimano"

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 01:13
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture
(Reply to #15426)

kmcdon wrote:
emor wrote:

Out of all the things wrong with the spencer, I think most anyone can get a pass on this.

What forum do you think this is, man?

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 01:25
jimmythefly
jimmythefly's picture
(Reply to #15427)

DaFROG wrote:
Blakey wrote:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=213349&page=3

pages of facepalm as kontact repeatedly fails to understand how wheels work. can't believe the other guy persisted for so long.

why do you subject yourself to that shit :P

Ouch wow. And it's always extra cringey for me when the person being a dumbass is wearing a company uniform (so to speak). Way to represent your brand.

I enjoyed this polite smackdown from the good guy:

Quote:
So, there you go - a simple example showing a spoke that clearly exhibits a compressive stiffness. If you do not see this, than you many not have the analytic tools to understand a bicycle wheel. Some of the arguments here may be about symantics and reference planes, but this one is not.

deadforkinglast wrote:
But honestly, I have no idea how I am going to follow through on that plan and I already have a pretty rad spencer. I think I just like fucking with my bikes.

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 01:42
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture
(Reply to #15428)

Tail Hook Lengthener wrote:
The part number, BK1493, doesn't align with anything currently in the Q catalog.

Edit - Apparently this is a Surly Pack Rat.

So Surly just introduced a new 650b, rim-brake spencer with their old crummy geometry? What the fuck for? Who wants these things? And it's a replacement for the Pacer?!

at least it means long-term continued availability of real-world 650b rim brake rims

also what the fuck are the tendrils under the saddle in that picture?

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 02:13
aek
aek's picture
(Reply to #15429)

jimmythefly wrote:
DaFROG wrote:
Blakey wrote:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=213349&page=3

pages of facepalm as kontact repeatedly fails to understand how wheels work. can't believe the other guy persisted for so long.

why do you subject yourself to that shit :P

Ouch wow. And it's always extra cringey for me when the person being a dumbass is wearing a company uniform (so to speak). Way to represent your brand.

I enjoyed this polite smackdown from the good guy:

Quote:
So, there you go - a simple example showing a spoke that clearly exhibits a compressive stiffness. If you do not see this, than you many not have the analytic tools to understand a bicycle wheel. Some of the arguments here may be about symantics and reference planes, but this one is not.

I must be misunderstanding either your argument or Kontact's or something.

I was under the impression wheels held themselves up via tension, from the top spokes... which have very little compressive strength and are basically thick wires.

doofo wrote:
tarck eats ur soul one lol at a time

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 04:18
Blakey
Blakey's picture

Kontact is wrong. The other guy is right.

The bottom spokes aren't in compression so much as they're under less tension. And the entire wheel assembly is a pre stressed structure that allows this to happen.

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 05:40
aek
aek's picture

I feel like we're saying the same thing. The bottom spokes being in less tension is a result of the top spokes absorbing most of the weight. The other guy's argument, as I understand it, is that because the bottom spokes are assembled in such high tension, that they act as columns, supporting weight in compression, which I think is an illusion. Anyone with a very loosely assembled wheel can attest to this; the wheel still rolls even with the bottom spokes obviously bowing. The reason they remain straight under "less tension" is exactly because after all the other spokes have supported everything else via tension, that the remaining weight is less than their very low compression strength.

One could replace spokes with string and still build an identically functional wheel. If I'm not mistaken, this may have been how very early spoked wheels were built.

Not to mention that the only thing holding the nipples in the rim is tension, under enough compression weight they'd poke right through the rim tape. I bet they'd puncture a tube well before a rim completely failed, too.

I can't imagine I'm thinking about this incorrectly and google supports my thoughts too. Wtf is going on?

doofo wrote:
tarck eats ur soul one lol at a time

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 07:15
crowding
crowding's picture

What's going on is that "compression" in the engineering sense applied here is just the negative of "tension".

1. A spoke starts out under 80 kgf of tension. You apply a load to the wheel, and it drops to 40kgf of tension. Thus you have changed the tension by -40 kgf. Of course it matters that the overall tension stays positive.
2. A spoke starts out under -80 kgf of compression, you apply a load so that it now reads -40kgf of compression. Thus you have compressed the spoke by 40 kgf. Of course it matters that the overall compression stay negative.

Debating whether one of the above sentences is "right" and the other is "wrong" is 100% pointless

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 08:26
ergott
ergott's picture

That conversation is like the movie Groundhog's Day. It's been around since rec.bicycle or whatever.

If someone on here did it, I'd probably like it. Since it was done by someone I don't know, they're a fucking idiot.

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 08:44
ergott
ergott's picture
(Reply to #15434)

aek wrote:
I feel like we're saying the same thing. The bottom spokes being in less tension is a result of the top spokes absorbing most of the weight.

As Mark mentioned, the top spokes have no appreciable increase in tension.

If someone on here did it, I'd probably like it. Since it was done by someone I don't know, they're a fucking idiot.

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 08:45
aek
aek's picture

It may be pointless, but it's still fucking with my head a little. I'm trying to reconcile whether a rider "hangs" from the rim or "stands" on the wheels bottom spokes.

And I don't think "compression" in this sense is the negative of "tension." Spokes have very, very little compressive strength and the argument I think is being made is that as long as they are held in in tension that they do, which seems wrong to me. A think can't be in both...can it? A wagon wheel stands in compression, the top spokes do NO work. The opposite is true of spencer wheels, in my mind and googles.

In my mind the few spokes closest to the contact patch could momentarily disappear and it would make no difference. Even a (standard) spoke's shape points to their intention, they carry weight, they do not hold it up. The fact that their tension is relieved by 40kgf or whatever is meaningless, in my mind, they are failing under load, while the remaining carry it.

In the string example, the bottom "spokes" may in fact lose half their tension, it wouldn't mean they are holding up that amount...?

Kontact and I must be misunderstanding "other guy's" argument.

doofo wrote:
tarck eats ur soul one lol at a time

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 08:46
ergott
ergott's picture

Aren't those FE models done without a tire anyway? You aren't getting direct loads on the bottom of the rim until the tire bottoms out.

If someone on here did it, I'd probably like it. Since it was done by someone I don't know, they're a fucking idiot.

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 08:47
aek
aek's picture
(Reply to #15437)

ergott wrote:
aek wrote:
I feel like we're saying the same thing. The bottom spokes being in less tension is a result of the top spokes absorbing most of the weight.

As Mark mentioned, the top spokes have no appreciable increase in tension.

In that case, aren't the top, and almost all the other spokes just doing their job, which is well below their threshold, and the bottom few failing a little, momentarily?

doofo wrote:
tarck eats ur soul one lol at a time

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 08:51
crowding
crowding's picture

1) The "threshold" that matters when you are worrying about spokes, thus the one the Jobsts are concerned with, is fatigue rather than ultimate strength
2) Fatiguing is a function of dynamic loading (changes in load over time)
3) The dynamic loading happens as the spoke rolls through the bottom (true for either a prestressed wheel or a compressioned wagon spokes; the point is that preload _drops out_ when you do the dynamic load calculation)

Reducing all of that to "you might as well think of the wheel standing on the bottom spokes" may be considered the kind of thing an enginerd says to troll normies

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 09:08
aek
aek's picture
(Reply to #15439)

crowding wrote:
Reducing all of that to "you might as well think of the wheel standing on the bottom spokes" may be considered the kind of thing an enginerd says to troll normies

Dammit, there we are.

doofo wrote:
tarck eats ur soul one lol at a time

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 09:12
newellbt
(Reply to #15440)

JUGE FREDD wrote:
Tail Hook Lengthener wrote:
So Surly just introduced a new 650b, rim-brake bike

at least it means long-term continued availability of real-world 650b rim brake rims

This was my first thought too, QBP can breathe a last breath of life into the 650b rim brake marketplace!

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 11:05
drwelby
drwelby's picture

Perfect opportunity to get Alex to roll some 650b Adventure 2s.

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 11:13
drwelby
drwelby's picture

confused marketing

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 11:19
chazzwazzer
chazzwazzer's picture

If you're an old dude with enough money for a gravel car, I'm pretty sure you're just going to buy an OPEN, right? Maybe with a Lauf if you really have to floss.

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 11:35
jdsmooth
jdsmooth's picture
(Reply to #15444)

old dudes money is tied up in DK200 futures market

Five-foot drops at speed on unstable terrain? Yep.

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 11:40
drwelby
drwelby's picture

rally and DK as "closed course" experience of wide open spaces, discuss

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 11:42
Whippin Skidz
Whippin Skidz's picture
(Reply to #15446)

drwelby wrote:

confused marketing

Nah that's rad.

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 12:01
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

I set up a few Slates for what I assume is a similar shoot up here in the Northwest. I suspect this will be a series.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 12:10
jdsmooth
jdsmooth's picture

there's an equally dumb VT Overland one

Five-foot drops at speed on unstable terrain? Yep.

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 12:15
balooon
balooon's picture

https://crustbikes.com/products/lightning-bolt-2/

did I miss where we tarcked about this?

doing it mostly right atmo?

* whoops crust chat is in "not sure" thrad

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 12:15
balooon
balooon's picture
(Reply to #15450)

aek wrote:
crowding wrote:
Reducing all of that to "you might as well think of the wheel standing on the bottom spokes" may be considered the kind of thing an enginerd says to troll normies

Dammit, there we are.

that paceline discussion was very annoying and somewhat edifying

Is the operative insight that tension in spokes away from the contact patch doesn't actually increase, but rather the downward force on the hub is entirely offset by the decrease in tension near the contact patch?

Wed, 11/15/2017 - 12:19

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