spencer blog thread

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Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

Endpoint wrote:
You’re reading it now.

lulz

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Sun, 11/05/2017 - 20:00
Andrew_Squirrel
Andrew_Squirrel's picture
(Reply to #15352)

jamesacklin wrote:
I realize I was wrong to bring guns into it, but there's something extremely scary to me about 16-year-olds behind the wheels of two tons of steel that can go 120 miles/hour, and the deeply-engrained social programming that piloting one of these things is not only your ticket to freedom but absolutely essential to make daily life in America happen.

Ban cars in cities

It's not just kids, humans are living longer despite the critical organs not working as well as they used to.
We've setup our entire society in such a way that there is a huge, difficult transition from the total freedom of owning your own home and driving everywhere to being locked up in a nursing home with no access to a personal auto.
Starting to wonder if I'm getting to the age where I need to call my parents DMV and request to have them tested every few years.
My grandma was ticketed about a decade ago for driving in a bicycle lane, totally oblivious. She didn't start driving until my grandfather died from old age. Crossing my fingers that self driving cars eventually solve part of this problem for those living in less dense areas.

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 12:33
jamesacklin
jamesacklin's picture
(Reply to #15353)

Andrew_Squirrel wrote:
My grandma was ticketed about a decade ago for driving in a bicycle lane, totally oblivious. She didn't start driving until my grandfather died from old age.

Same situation here. My aunts had to manage a difficult process by which grandma had to give up the car, but in all fairness, she did present a danger to virtually everyone on the road.

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 12:37
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture
(Reply to #15354)

Andrew_Squirrel wrote:
Crossing my fingers that self driving cars eventually solve part of this problem for those living in less dense areas.

I'm losing my patience waiting for this.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 12:59
joy of vaping
joy of vaping's picture

when my grandmother was 87, my dad got a call that she was found driving through a corn field in a town about an hour away from her house. He took the battery out of her car after that.

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 13:05
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

My grandfather told us he fell asleep as a stop light and had to be woken by the driver behind him. He gave up driving the next day.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 13:09
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 13:09
fixed
fixed's picture

GM has repeatedly said that they are "quarters, not years" away from autonomous driving for ride-hailing operations. it will be a lot longer before our grandparents have one in their driveway.
it's coming.
if anyone wants to know more, let me know. i run our consulting firm's mobility division.

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 13:20
jamesacklin
jamesacklin's picture
(Reply to #15359)

I think this is the right thing to do—start the frame design with the use-case, then tailor sizes based on natural breaks in the fit data. It's smart, it makes sense.

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 13:37
ergott
ergott's picture

Just call them standard and t-rex fit. More dudes will have less JA looking bikes if they are honest with their contact points.

If someone on here did it, I'd probably like it. Since it was done by someone I don't know, they're a fucking idiot.

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 13:53
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture

Yogi or fogey fit.

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 13:55
akasnowmaaan
akasnowmaaan's picture
(Reply to #15362)

drwelby wrote:
woah

on the whole, idgi

How can I get these, please, they rule

Should have said it was just a cross check with different geometry. - Todd

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 16:13
drwelby
drwelby's picture

dunno, they were posted on vsalad

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 16:33
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture
(Reply to #15364)

drwelby wrote:
dunno, they were posted on vsalad

Suddenly I want it less.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 16:41
NOVELTYNAME
NOVELTYNAME's picture

“Richard Sachs and Jan heiney are not to be idolized”

"Folks want options!"

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 16:42
Perlhammered
Perlhammered's picture

My buddy Chase makes them. DM me and I'll get you guys in contact

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 16:54
jimmythefly
jimmythefly's picture
(Reply to #15367)

NOVELTYNAME wrote:
“Richard Sachs and Jan heiney are not to be idolized”

The Sticker is the Sticker

deadforkinglast wrote:
But honestly, I have no idea how I am going to follow through on that plan and I already have a pretty rad spencer. I think I just like fucking with my bikes.

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 16:55
Rentable Faxmachine
Rentable Faxmachine's picture

Jeff Potter (BOB list member) drives me absolutely insane.

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 17:34
mander
mander's picture

Worst since John A. Ardelli

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 17:37
drwelby
drwelby's picture

I like his OYB schtick

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 17:58
Rentable Faxmachine
Rentable Faxmachine's picture
(Reply to #15371)

drwelby wrote:
I like his OYB schtick

I half expect him to post something along the lines of, "Hey, I have an old Craftsman hammer, how can I turn it into an open-end adjustable wrench?"

Mon, 11/06/2017 - 18:10
Patch
Patch's picture
(Reply to #15372)

jamesacklin wrote:

I think this is the right thing to do—start the frame design with the use-case, then tailor sizes based on natural breaks in the fit data. It's smart, it makes sense.

More on that from S
https://cyclingtips.com/2017/07/cyclingtips-podcast-episode-32-specialized-decided-ditch-gender-specific-geometry/

Tue, 11/07/2017 - 03:49
lukasz
lukasz's picture

christ maybe my girlfriend will be able to look at bikes soon without wanting to vomit from all the cutesy girly color schemes that all the tarck dudes (including myself) love to rock

Tue, 11/07/2017 - 09:46
liquify
liquify's picture

I mean, most bikes are offered in some shade of black, so she just isn't trying hard enough.

Tue, 11/07/2017 - 10:13
joy of vaping
joy of vaping's picture

gender specific geometry is generally done completely wrong anyways -- women don't actually have longer legs and shorter torsos on average compared to men. The differences actually amount to location of center of gravity (which changes fit) and saddle preference, but fitness and flexibility is still huge factor.

Tue, 11/07/2017 - 10:43
jeffro
jeffro's picture
(Reply to #15376)

eric_ssucks wrote:
Yogi or fogey fit.

I love this.

Tue, 11/07/2017 - 13:21
mdilthey
mdilthey's picture

Kelley rides men's bikes. She's 5'8" and i'm 6'0", but as Tarck remembers from the stupid stem I had on my Nature Boy when I posted for the first time, I have ridiculously long legs. When Kelley and I sit next to each other in the car, Kelley is taller than me because my torso is so short.

So long as reach is in check, I have never found a spencer frame I couldn't make work with a different stem and seatpost. But reach is rarely perfect.

26/M/41t N/W

Tue, 11/07/2017 - 18:39
jamesacklin
jamesacklin's picture

Sup has longer legs and arms than I do, but a shorter torso. We can’t ride the same bikes because she hates bikes.

Tue, 11/07/2017 - 18:52
sparksflyhigh
sparksflyhigh's picture
(Reply to #15379)

joy of vaping wrote:
gender specific geometry is generally done completely wrong anyways -- women don't actually have longer legs and shorter torsos on average compared to men. The differences actually amount to location of center of gravity (which changes fit) and saddle preference, but fitness and flexibility is still huge factor.

How exactly does a different center of mass effect fit? This was a big part of Giant/Liv marketing spiel, but they never explained it, leading me to assume it's bullshit

Tue, 11/07/2017 - 22:34
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture

It's bullshit. Maybe they're talking about position preference based on gender? Dunno.

Tue, 11/07/2017 - 22:57
liquify
liquify's picture

Then they sure spend a lot of money on bullshit when they could make more by just repainting other bikes.

Wed, 11/08/2017 - 07:09
crabbi
crabbi's picture
(Reply to #15382)

sparksflyhigh wrote:
joy of vaping wrote:
gender specific geometry is generally done completely wrong anyways -- women don't actually have longer legs and shorter torsos on average compared to men. The differences actually amount to location of center of gravity (which changes fit) and saddle preference, but fitness and flexibility is still huge factor.

How exactly does a different center of mass effect fit? This was a big part of Giant/Liv marketing spiel, but they never explained it, leading me to assume it's bullshit

I can see this as typically men will have more upper body weight, causing them to stretch out to balance it with saddle setback and long stems, whereas women typically have less upper body weight and can achieve the same comfort with shorter stems and use less core strength to support their upper body. idk, but all B's bikes are "men's specific" bikes when she could have bought a comparable "women's specific" model of the same spencer. I will say that I do have to switch out the front ring and cassette on her cross spencer because she rides in the bigest cog 90% of the time and has trouble on the steeper stuff. the women's model of the raleigh had a 36t cassette and 38t ring vs 32t/40t.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
if you're here, you probably fucked up somewhere along the line.

Wed, 11/08/2017 - 09:36
joy of vaping
joy of vaping's picture
(Reply to #15383)

sparksflyhigh wrote:
joy of vaping wrote:
gender specific geometry is generally done completely wrong anyways -- women don't actually have longer legs and shorter torsos on average compared to men. The differences actually amount to location of center of gravity (which changes fit) and saddle preference, but fitness and flexibility is still huge factor.

How exactly does a different center of mass effect fit? This was a big part of Giant/Liv marketing spiel, but they never explained it, leading me to assume it's bullshit

The "Steve Hogg" saddle setback test: while pedaling at a typical effort, take your hands off the bars, and you should be able to keep your upper body in the same position without strain. If you fall forward, push your saddle backwards. It's about finding the balance point between the weight of your torso and the forces from pedaling.

So CG affects fit, but it's extremely variable with flexibility + fitness + how hard you ride, and it's not something you'd design a frame around.

https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/05/seat-set-back-for-road-bikes/

We have a fit thread, somewhere.

Wed, 11/08/2017 - 11:19
liquify
liquify's picture
Wed, 11/08/2017 - 11:45
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture
(Reply to #15385)

crabbi wrote:
I can see this as typically men will have more upper body weight, causing them to stretch out to balance it with saddle setback and long stems, whereas women typically have less upper body weight and can achieve the same comfort with shorter stems and use less core strength to support their upper body.

This was my assumption, but I would bet that if you put all the women's measurements into a database and compared with men, the general difference is that women would be smaller and lighter in general, and so would require less beef in a frameset of a given size. However I suspect that the average difference in weight between genders is less than the range of weights within genders, so any frame designer is going to need to design for the 95th percentile rider for that size. The same is likely true for variation within genders vs. between genders with respect to lengths of body components, and again, a designer would need to design for a reasonable medium with the expectation that some fitting would occur to find the right size compromise.

I think that women's specific bikes have a place as a marketing exercise, and with some smart component choices could be beneficial in adding new female identified riders, but even then you're cutting your market into ever smaller bits and relying on your shops to be competent. I like the idea of having two different fit designs for any given body size range, and the shop can fit the correct frameset for the customer's body plan (e.g long torso, long reach, or short torso, shorter reach), and have size specific frame tuning for the expected weight range. Of course, no spencer maker is going to do this because holy shit, you're doubling the amount of frames you need to build for 1-2cm differences.

Wed, 11/08/2017 - 16:05
ergott
ergott's picture
(Reply to #15386)

David Kirk beat him to it.

https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f7/riding-tip-1-a-550.html

http://kirkframeworks.com/2009/06/19/riding-tip-3/

joy of vaping wrote:
sparksflyhigh wrote:
joy of vaping wrote:
gender specific geometry is generally done completely wrong anyways -- women don't actually have longer legs and shorter torsos on average compared to men. The differences actually amount to location of center of gravity (which changes fit) and saddle preference, but fitness and flexibility is still huge factor.

How exactly does a different center of mass effect fit? This was a big part of Giant/Liv marketing spiel, but they never explained it, leading me to assume it's bullshit

The "Steve Hogg" saddle setback test: while pedaling at a typical effort, take your hands off the bars, and you should be able to keep your upper body in the same position without strain. If you fall forward, push your saddle backwards. It's about finding the balance point between the weight of your torso and the forces from pedaling.

So CG affects fit, but it's extremely variable with flexibility + fitness + how hard you ride, and it's not something you'd design a frame around.

https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/05/seat-set-back-for-road-bikes/

We have a fit thread, somewhere.

If someone on here did it, I'd probably like it. Since it was done by someone I don't know, they're a fucking idiot.

Wed, 11/08/2017 - 16:44
iwillbe
iwillbe's picture

Hogg's website is a chaotic warzone of confusion, but if you can wade through it, his original blog post on "effective torso" was really helpful in thinking about how body length measurements alone aren't really useful. He shows how three people with the same spine or clavicle-to-pelvis length or whatever have radically different reaches, based on how their pelvis rests on a saddle.

Wed, 11/08/2017 - 22:12
joy of vaping
joy of vaping's picture
(Reply to #15388)

I remember this thread now, good info.

Sat, 11/11/2017 - 13:19
yonderboy
yonderboy's picture

I'm assuming this is a joke. A $54 seatpost binder bolt:

http://www.richardsachs.com/site/2017/11/10/richard-sachs-seat-lug-survival-kit/

Mon, 11/13/2017 - 20:27
DaFROG
DaFROG's picture

It's not a seat post bolt it's a lifestyle SHARTMO

also it's already been mercilessly pilloried and blatantly ripped off in teh "A Fistful Of Post ATMO" thread.

We have assembled an international voltron of geometry, marketing and metallurgy experts working around the clock and have determined that your spencer sucks

Mon, 11/13/2017 - 20:59
kmcdon
kmcdon's picture
(Reply to #15391)

yonderboy wrote:
I'm assuming this is a joke. A $54 seatpost binder bolt:

http://www.richardsachs.com/site/2017/11/10/richard-sachs-seat-lug-survival-kit/

I saw that before, and I'm pretty sure it's not a joke.

Mon, 11/13/2017 - 21:27
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

We have discussed this at length here.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Mon, 11/13/2017 - 22:02
JUGE FREDD
JUGE FREDD's picture

huh I didn't expect it to be only $54

it's def twice as complex as a Salsa Liplock

the absurd packaging is included as a reacharound

It's a struggle, but you cut out his tongue, and his last words are "atmo atmo Atmo ATMO ATMOOOOOGORIHGGHRSHGGRLMGGMMGMgrrglegurglegrr....."
– akasnowmaaan

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 01:42
guccipolo

Has this been discussed?

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 10:36
Face
Face's picture

Cross check with a milk crate rack?

Mr. Pubes wrote:
i fear that you are so lost in your own asshole that you may never be found again. do you have a flare gun? send for help.

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 10:44
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

What am I looking at here? A LHT with a front rack?

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 10:48
Mr. Pubes
Mr. Pubes's picture

since when does the cross check have the three mounts under the dt. what is this dog shit.

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 10:54
drwelby
drwelby's picture

lotta rake on that fork...

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 10:59
kmcdon
kmcdon's picture

I can barely make out what the toptube says, but it doesn't say cross-check, and it doesn't say LHT.

It almost looks like it might say pacer, but pacer no cantibrake.

what the fuck is this

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 11:44
NOVELTYNAME
NOVELTYNAME's picture

It just looks like a piece of shit that somebody is going to spend $2500 on and commute a bunch

Stock photo needs fenders

"Folks want options!"

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 11:46

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