THE TRAINING SUPERTHREAD, feat. HALBRITT

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aerobear
aerobear's picture

dmotobear wrote:
learn how to meter your effort and conserve energy. One of my teammates doesn't ride more than once a week and hangs in the 1/2/3 crits based on that skill alone.

for a crit you only really need 2 skills

1. wheelsucking
2. cornering

And if youre wheelsucking, the cornering is even easier. just gotta follow the same line as the guy in front of you and not jam on the brakes.

For Doug at Mt Tabor theres really no cornering to worry about. It's not really a crit so it's harder than that. And unlike most races where you pace yourself, it's a balls out uphill, recovery downhill kind of thing. Pacing yourself up the hill will get you dropped

What would be most helpful for you, Doug, is to identify teh other guys in the race at your level who are also struggling. Work with them instead of riding off teh back by yourself. Riding the rae in a group, even if off the main pack, feels way better and builds much more skill, plus you'll ride harder trying to push yourself and those guys. It's a mental game and once youre on your own off the back, its really hard to push yourself.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 10:58
halbritt
halbritt's picture

dougtruck wrote:
i gotta do something.
i do not want to finish off the back in every race of this series.
what is a good workout plan for getting me to be up with the main group by the end of the series?

operation lose 15lbs has been greenlighted

Amy had some good strategy tips, but you want to improve fitness. Can you drop a bunch of weight quickly? Now is the time of the season to do VO2Max intervals and I have no great ideas about how to pace them without a power meter. You could try this: Find a hill which takes you 5-6 minutes to climb with an all-out effort. Time this fairly accurately. Then gird yourself for 6x5s. You're gonna puke. Climb the hill 6 times as hard as you can go without blowing up. Time your efforts and try to keep them consistent. Once you get to the top, roll to the bottom and spin for about 5 minutes then repeat.

Day 1: Race
Day 2: Rest
Day 3: VO2Max Intervals
Day 4: Recover, easy spinning
Day 5: VO2Max Intervals
Day 6: Recover, easy spinning
Day 7: Spin Easy for an hour with a couple of really hard 5 minute efforts thrown in. You could do a couple of your VO2Max intervals here, but no more.
Day 8: Race again

If you're doing this shit hard enough and can recover from it your fitness will improve very quickly. If you can sustain this for three weeks, take an easy week after with nothing but easy spinning in your fourth week with a very small dose of high intensity work.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:14
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

i think i'm just overreaching.
i was stressed so hard about upgrading and finals week that i rode myself into the ground and didnt sleep or eat right. i keep telling myself the suffering is good for me but the truth is my legs have felt like shit for about 3 weeks and i been pedaling squares for the last two. i'm gonna back off and just try and have fun again. for me riding is about seeing the sights and getting my head right
racing is less about competing than hangin with the homies
when i start comparing myself against other people fitness-wise for my self esteem, shit goes downhill.

so back to basics. keepin it fun, keepin it brown.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 18:44
aerobear
aerobear's picture

my philosophy on eating is each as uch as you want, just try to eat good food. if youre feeling like you are overeating, just overeat on healthy shit. eating is super important to recovery.

i have very poor eating skills. i eat junk and i never make time to feed myself. but i try to make up for it at dinner every day and eat a huge filling of something healthy so i dont die.

plus i get real grumpy when hungry and no one wants to deal with me hangry. brent gets so mad cuz i get reallllly irrational.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 19:17
halbritt
halbritt's picture

dougtruck wrote:
i think i'm just overreaching.
i was stressed so hard about upgrading and finals week that i rode myself into the ground and didnt sleep or eat right.

Adaptation doesn't occur from training, adaptation occurs from recovery from training. If you're not eating or sleeping right, then you're not recovering, so what's the point of training?

As far as eating goes, if you're interested in getting leaner, limit the periods when you consume carbs, especially simple ones, to those times just before or just after training.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Sun, 06/12/2011 - 16:55
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

yeah ive been doing pretty much that, but on nights before races i would consume taters n pastas too
whatever, i've had a pretty good season on the road. got a couple top tens and made the 4s. learned a lot.
prob skip this weeks hilltop crit for the rapha ride
but ill do the rest of that series and then im done except for the kermesses and cross season
gonna eat bbq, work lots and have fun coz summer.

still gonna do track workouts with todd and the good squad, but racing track is gonna take some time.
i have the fear out there super bad :(

Sun, 06/12/2011 - 23:49
halbritt
halbritt's picture

Sounds like a good season to me.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 00:48
aerobear
aerobear's picture

Brent has a wired PT converted for track use and an older cycleops cervo that came with. Can't download anything off of it into golden cheetah. Just says no serial devices found.

Heath???

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 22:33
halbritt
halbritt's picture

Well, can you get any data off it at all with the Cyclops software?

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 19:11
dmotobear
dmotobear's picture

update drivers?

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 19:19
aerobear
aerobear's picture

halbritt wrote:
Well, can you get any data off it at all with the Cyclops software?

I dont know if brent downloaded the power agant thing. Gonna try to get it and try that I guess?

dmotobear wrote:
update drivers?

Downloaded all the drivers it told us to and then some, still nothin'.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 12:57
Bamfs01
Bamfs01's picture

aerobear wrote:
halbritt wrote:
Well, can you get any data off it at all with the Cyclops software?

I dont know if brent downloaded the power agant thing. Gonna try to get it and try that I guess?

dmotobear wrote:
update drivers?

Downloaded all the drivers it told us to and then some, still nothin'.

Does it have any firmware updates that may address the problem? I might be able to help or provide another brain (coz IT). Lemme know.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 13:25
yonderboy
yonderboy's picture

Raising this thread from the dead.

This is a crosspost of stuff I typed into another forum, because I've done a post-mortem of my season and put together another annual training plan for 2018.

The book I started with about 10 years ago when I started racing was The Cyclist's Training Bible,by Joe Friel ( https://www.amazon.com/Cyclists-Training-Bible-Joe-Friel/dp/1934030201 ). If you've got a significant amount of time (~6 months) to devote to training, his periodization method is considered the standard for most cycling plans. I used this method for most of my amateur racing career, but I didn't really like noodling around in Z1 for most of the winter and didn't feel like I gained much benefit from it.

Last season, I decided late in the game that I was going to get back into racing and used Chris Carmichael's Time Crunched Cyclist plan ( https://www.amazon.com/Time-Crunched-Cyclist-Race-Winning-Fitness-Athlete/dp/1937715507/ ). The big thing I learned from the TCTP was that the bulk of my weekday training can be done on a trainer and done in around an hour. That plan was able to get me to a pretty good level of fitness in a short time. The downside is that the TCTP has a really short peak of maybe a week or two and you really need to pay attention to the signs of overtraining. That plan runs for 12 weeks without rest, but I found I could only make it about 10 before I started noticing fatigue setting in. That said, I was able to put in one of my best seasons to date with the help of this plan.

Sometime last year, I was introduced to the British Cycling training plans, which they provide for free ( https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/training-plans ). They were published about 2 years ago, but I've heard good things about them. This year I've based my overall plan on the British Cycling plans, because the mid-week workouts are largely trainer-based and they have a little more intensity in the early season than the traditional periodization plan. The Foundation plan has rides on the weekends that are 3+ hrs long, which I'm not sure I can swing in the winter. I'm going to keep doing the trainer workouts during the week and possibly use some of the longer intervals from the TCTP to supplement my weekend riding if the roads are shitty. The other nice thing about these plans is that there are discipline-specific 8-week plans that can be applied during a racing season after following the Foundation and build schedules.

The thing that sucks about annual training plans is that it usually takes a few months to usually figure out if they're headed in the right direction. I spent a couple weeks considering a coach, but I'd be looking at ~$150 for a consultation and training plan, with a monthly fee for plan maintenance to tweak the schedule.

In the end, I decided I would save myself some money and just keyed the BC plans into Google Calendar while I was reviewing them. I think the British Cycling plans are actually free on TrainingPeaks, but I like having the weekly agenda on my phone.

Right now, most of the 2018 schedules have not been published. My overall plan is to following the BC Foundation and Build plans for now and revisit my plan in February to pick out my A races. I'm tentatively planning to race enduro MTB on the weekends and hit up the weekday track races. I'd really like to travel to Sweden for an enduro, but I may have to limit my travel to Montana or Northern Washington, depending on cash flow.

Sun, 11/12/2017 - 13:47
NOVELTYNAME
NOVELTYNAME's picture

I am interested

"Folks want options!"

Sun, 11/12/2017 - 15:06
cousinmosquito
cousinmosquito's picture
(Reply to #315)

Time crunched is the ONLY way to train. Most people spend too long doing their hard rides to easy and their easy rides too hard. When I trained as opposed to just riding I already had a family so I had to get really inventive with my time. If you really want to do something you will find a way. I was lucky enough to have a big office to myself, and out the back, there was a large switch board room. I hid a windtrainer and a mattresse in it. Until the office manager found, which was quite a while later. I could do sessions out the back in my lunch hour if the weather was arse and if I was tired from having a life, I could grab a 30 minute micro-nap at lunch in the dark on the mattress. One of my daughters had a 30 minute dance class. I would take her inside to the class, take my spencer of the car rack and do a 20 minute hill climb behind the dance studio that had a 5 minute descent. 20 minutes effort is good value training. If you've read all the Friel and Carmichael stuff you probably don't need a coach. Most people pay good money for coaches and ignore what they say anyway. Sounds like you have some cool stuff coming up.

Mon, 11/13/2017 - 03:11
y
y's picture
(Reply to #316)

yonderboy wrote:
Raising this thread from the dead.

This is a crosspost of stuff I typed into another forum, because I've done a post-mortem of my season and put together another annual training plan for 2018.

The book I started with about 10 years ago when I started racing was The Cyclist's Training Bible,by Joe Friel ( https://www.amazon.com/Cyclists-Training-Bible-Joe-Friel/dp/1934030201 ). If you've got a significant amount of time (~6 months) to devote to training, his periodization method is considered the standard for most cycling plans. I used this method for most of my amateur racing career, but I didn't really like noodling around in Z1 for most of the winter and didn't feel like I gained much benefit from it.

Last season, I decided late in the game that I was going to get back into racing and used Chris Carmichael's Time Crunched Cyclist plan ( https://www.amazon.com/Time-Crunched-Cyclist-Race-Winning-Fitness-Athlete/dp/1937715507/ ). The big thing I learned from the TCTP was that the bulk of my weekday training can be done on a trainer and done in around an hour. That plan was able to get me to a pretty good level of fitness in a short time. The downside is that the TCTP has a really short peak of maybe a week or two and you really need to pay attention to the signs of overtraining. That plan runs for 12 weeks without rest, but I found I could only make it about 10 before I started noticing fatigue setting in. That said, I was able to put in one of my best seasons to date with the help of this plan.

Sometime last year, I was introduced to the British Cycling training plans, which they provide for free ( https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/training-plans ). They were published about 2 years ago, but I've heard good things about them. This year I've based my overall plan on the British Cycling plans, because the mid-week workouts are largely trainer-based and they have a little more intensity in the early season than the traditional periodization plan. The Foundation plan has rides on the weekends that are 3+ hrs long, which I'm not sure I can swing in the winter. I'm going to keep doing the trainer workouts during the week and possibly use some of the longer intervals from the TCTP to supplement my weekend riding if the roads are shitty. The other nice thing about these plans is that there are discipline-specific 8-week plans that can be applied during a racing season after following the Foundation and build schedules.

The thing that sucks about annual training plans is that it usually takes a few months to usually figure out if they're headed in the right direction. I spent a couple weeks considering a coach, but I'd be looking at ~$150 for a consultation and training plan, with a monthly fee for plan maintenance to tweak the schedule.

In the end, I decided I would save myself some money and just keyed the BC plans into Google Calendar while I was reviewing them. I think the British Cycling plans are actually free on TrainingPeaks, but I like having the weekly agenda on my phone.

Right now, most of the 2018 schedules have not been published. My overall plan is to following the BC Foundation and Build plans for now and revisit my plan in February to pick out my A races. I'm tentatively planning to race enduro MTB on the weekends and hit up the weekday track races. I'd really like to travel to Sweden for an enduro, but I may have to limit my travel to Montana or Northern Washington, depending on cash flow.

how many hours/week you training? what category(ies) you race in? what's yr ftp/kg?

Mon, 11/13/2017 - 05:57
yonderboy
yonderboy's picture
(Reply to #317)

y wrote:
how many hours/week you training? what category(ies) you race in? what's yr ftp/kg?

One nice thing I've found about using software is that all that stuff has been logged for me without having to think about it.

I averaged 6.15 hrs/wk at 330 TSS; I'm planning on upping that to 7 hrs/wk at around 370 TSS.

My w/kg on the Stages should be about 2.65, but I need to retest. That puts me fairly low on Coggan's chart, but I'm only putting down 1s maxes of 800 w. I suspect I've got an imbalance going on, but as long as I keep re-testing at regular intervals, I can work with that. I'll probably stick with Sport on the MTB and Cat 4 on the track. I actually placed reasonably well in both those categories last season, so I might be able to upgrade for the first time in forever.

Which reminds me: Now that Coggan and PeaksWare have had a falling out, what arbitrary measurement are amateurs going to use to measure their virility online with?

Mon, 11/13/2017 - 09:31
eric_ssucks
eric_ssucks's picture

Strava.

Mon, 11/13/2017 - 17:54
y
y's picture

i'm gonna do trainer road again and substitute all the workouts with track and outdoor rides.

Mon, 11/13/2017 - 18:27
aerobear
aerobear's picture

i don't care about ftp anymore (used to be around 4 w/kg peak season).
back in the gym doing squads, deadlifts, etc. trying to focus on strength and mtb skills. gonna nail the technical riding this year.

and dirt jumps, cuz why not.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Mon, 11/13/2017 - 23:13
NOVELTYNAME
NOVELTYNAME's picture

I want to be as fast as I was in 2015. I need to ride but I’m very uncomfortable right now. My rain gear sucks and my gloves suck so here I am.

Tonight I got some nikwax tech wash to do my jacket and pants and I guess I’ll go from there. Next are pogies and shoe covers.

"Folks want options!"

Tue, 11/14/2017 - 01:21

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