training thread

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halbritt
halbritt's picture

AndreBear wrote:
halbritt wrote:
AndreBear wrote:
Likewise, totally interested in the PM talk, just don't have a PM. If no one else steps up I'll gladly snag the PM you're offering and see what kind of watts I can throw at it... is it just hub or attached to teh wheelz?

Wireless PT on a DT Swiss RR1.2. The rim is shit and due to be replaced soon, but it works fine. You have a Garmin?

Nah, no head-unit in my possession although theoretically I can use my iPhone right?

Ahh shit, wheel's Shimano eh?

Shimano, correct. Amy, you on Campy now?

smash wrote:
Heath, thanks for the PM breakdown. One Q: what time range should I have GC basing the BikeScore estimate on? 30 days?

Are you referring to seed values or starting values? There are two formulas for estimating that. Average hours per week for the last few weeks multiplied by 7. Say you road 8,6, and 9 hours for an average of 7.6 hours multiplied by 7 is 53.2, which would be your starting value for CTL and ATL. The values will only start to get accurate after a month or so.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Mon, 02/28/2011 - 23:40
aerobear
aerobear's picture

halbritt wrote:
AndreBear wrote:
halbritt wrote:
AndreBear wrote:
Likewise, totally interested in the PM talk, just don't have a PM. If no one else steps up I'll gladly snag the PM you're offering and see what kind of watts I can throw at it... is it just hub or attached to teh wheelz?

Wireless PT on a DT Swiss RR1.2. The rim is shit and due to be replaced soon, but it works fine. You have a Garmin?

Nah, no head-unit in my possession although theoretically I can use my iPhone right?

Ahh shit, wheel's Shimano eh?

Shimano, correct. Amy, you on Campy now?

For all of 2 more days... Just got ahold of some cheap rival parts for my rain bike(which is hilarious cuz i sold my rival stuff to doug like 4 mos ago) so I can sell this campy stuff then hopefully get a new force group for my race bike.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Mon, 02/28/2011 - 23:51
halbritt
halbritt's picture

Let me know when you have it together. I'll ship the PT up there. You can use it and pass it around if anyone wants to do some testing. I probably won't need it for another month or two.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 00:35
smash
smash's picture

halbritt wrote:

smash wrote:
Heath, thanks for the PM breakdown. One Q: what time range should I have GC basing the BikeScore estimate on? 30 days?

Are you referring to seed values or starting values? There are two formulas for estimating that. Average hours per week for the last few weeks multiplied by 7. Say you road 8,6, and 9 hours for an average of 7.6 hours multiplied by 7 is 53.2, which would be your starting value for CTL and ATL. The values will only start to get accurate after a month or so.

Sorry, should have screenshotted. I'm referring to this setting:

I have been putting my workouts into GC since the fall so I've been assuming that I don't need to do any seeding at this point. Could definitely be wrong on that though.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:23
halbritt
halbritt's picture

Okay, that's a new feature that I wasn't familiar with.

GC Folks wrote:
# BikeScore Estimate: use rides within the last x days: BikeScore is one of the metrics used in the performance manager for determining the level of stress imparted on your body by a particular activity. Sometimes, you will not have your powermeter, heart rate monitor, or GPS along on an activity, and you will need to enter that activity using the manual ride entry... dialog. If you are using the performance manager, you will want to quantify the stress load of EVERY activity. You can enter activities manually, and Golden Cheetah will ESTIMATE how much stress was accumulated. Golden Cheetah takes previous days into account when estimating stress. You can specify the number of days in this field.

# BikeScore estimate mode: There are a few ways to quantify the amount of stress imparted by an activity using the manual ride entry... dialog. Currently, the two options offered are time and distance. Neither of these metrics are perfect, as a 10 mile mountain bike ride could impart far more stress than a 10 mile road bike ride - even though they would appear to be the same in Golden Cheetah.

My advice is this: Leave Bikescore estimate as blank. Use a power meter for every ride that you can and gain some experience estimating the IF of a ride. Learn to estimate the TSS/Bikescore of a ride where you didn't have a power meter. For me, I kept the powertap on my training bike and took out my other bikes for short JRA (just riding around) kind of rides. I didn't bother to add that as training stress because they were usually less than 10 miles and at an intensity low enough that it just didn't matter.

Many folks in the tour last year chose not to use a power meter on the cobble stages and chose to estimate their TSS to keep their PMC accurate.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:49
halbritt
halbritt's picture

aerobear wrote:
already edited it out of the ride for Brent, so it no longer shows up in the ride. Just went to the editor again and the max power in that ride is about 1000 watts, but when you got to critical power the 1s is at like 20k watts

In the latest version under "tools" there's a function called "fix power spikes". Give that a whirl.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:53
aerobear
aerobear's picture

halbritt wrote:
aerobear wrote:
already edited it out of the ride for Brent, so it no longer shows up in the ride. Just went to the editor again and the max power in that ride is about 1000 watts, but when you got to critical power the 1s is at like 20k watts

In the latest version under "tools" there's a function called "fix power spikes". Give that a whirl.

Yeah that setting is already set to fix spikes above 1500 watts.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:13
Nlinealac

Q: Any advice for riding on a trainer after an injury. I recently broke my collar bone racing and had to have surgey to plate it. I want to get back in shape before I get out on the rode. I still have almost a month of recovery before I can go out so trainer is all I can do for now. Should I put my speed sensor on the rear wheel? I'm not sure that data is accurate and would do me any good. Rabbi said Heath is the guy to ask.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 22:51
halbritt
halbritt's picture

Nlinealac wrote:
Q: Any advice for riding on a trainer after an injury. I recently broke my collar bone racing and had to have surgey to plate it. I want to get back in shape before I get out on the rode. I still have almost a month of recovery before I can go out so trainer is all I can do for now. Should I put my speed sensor on the rear wheel? I'm not sure that data is accurate and would do me any good. Rabbi said Heath is the guy to ask.

Just get on it and ride as hard as you can for 20-30 minutes or until your balls get numb. That's about as good as you can do without a more structured training plan.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:52
smash
smash's picture

halbritt wrote:
Okay, that's a new feature that I wasn't familiar with.

GC Folks wrote:
# BikeScore Estimate: use rides within the last x days: BikeScore is one of the metrics used in the performance manager for determining the level of stress imparted on your body by a particular activity. Sometimes, you will not have your powermeter, heart rate monitor, or GPS along on an activity, and you will need to enter that activity using the manual ride entry... dialog. If you are using the performance manager, you will want to quantify the stress load of EVERY activity. You can enter activities manually, and Golden Cheetah will ESTIMATE how much stress was accumulated. Golden Cheetah takes previous days into account when estimating stress. You can specify the number of days in this field.

# BikeScore estimate mode: There are a few ways to quantify the amount of stress imparted by an activity using the manual ride entry... dialog. Currently, the two options offered are time and distance. Neither of these metrics are perfect, as a 10 mile mountain bike ride could impart far more stress than a 10 mile road bike ride - even though they would appear to be the same in Golden Cheetah.

My advice is this: Leave Bikescore estimate as blank. Use a power meter for every ride that you can and gain some experience estimating the IF of a ride. Learn to estimate the TSS/Bikescore of a ride where you didn't have a power meter. For me, I kept the powertap on my training bike and took out my other bikes for short JRA (just riding around) kind of rides. I didn't bother to add that as training stress because they were usually less than 10 miles and at an intensity low enough that it just didn't matter.

Many folks in the tour last year chose not to use a power meter on the cobble stages and chose to estimate their TSS to keep their PMC accurate.

Thanks Heath, good info - I didn't realize that this was for estimates on non-PM rides. I've actually already been doing my own estimates for runs and non-PM rides. I basically take a SWAG using my impressions of how I felt + heart rate zone.

PS, did the 6x5s last week and it was tough. The first workout I had to do it as 6x3s so that I could finish, but I was able to do it as 6x5s the second workout. Felt like I came out of that week still having made some progress.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 14:31
tjayk
tjayk's picture

what kind of riding should i be doing? trying to get ready for 2 hr mtb races, maybe some crits/rr's, and major goal is cyclocross in the fall.

i am probably the most fit i have ever been thanks to lots and lots of xc skiing this winter. i can probably ride all day without getting my heart rate up (can do some hardish efforts while breathing through my nose), but i am just getting back on the bike.

should i skip base miles and start doing anaerobic efforts?

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 17:18
halbritt
halbritt's picture

smash wrote:
PS, did the 6x5s last week and it was tough. The first workout I had to do it as 6x3s so that I could finish, but I was able to do it as 6x5s the second workout. Felt like I came out of that week still having made some progress.

First work out was 3-minute long interval at 115-120% of FTP six times, which you were then able to extend to five minutes? Want to make sure I understand correctly.

VO2Max intervals are awesome, but they're also for people that already have some base. You have some base? No real worry about doing 'em, as they'll bump FTP a bit as well. At some point, you'll need to back off and start working on FTP again. They're not as peak inducing as anaerobic efforts.

tjayk wrote:
what kind of riding should i be doing?

I love these questions which include no info on training plan, present fitness, hours per week, targeted race dates or anything.

tjayk wrote:
trying to get ready for 2 hr mtb races, maybe some crits/rr's, and major goal is cyclocross in the fall.

i am probably the most fit i have ever been thanks to lots and lots of xc skiing this winter. i can probably ride all day without getting my heart rate up (can do some hardish efforts while breathing through my nose), but i am just getting back on the bike.

should i skip base miles and start doing anaerobic efforts?

I'll take a stab. When's your first MTB race? I'd recommend waiting until 3-4 weeks out to start anaerobic training. Do 10x1s for 2-3 weeks (twice a week), then taper for your race, this should nicely induce a peak. Start supplementing creatine 5g per day a week or two before you start the anaerobic efforts.

Until then, build FTP. Everyone needs to build FTP. If you're not already cat1/2, you need to build FTP. How do you build FTP? SST, and 2x20s, 3x20s. If you don't have a power meter, your best shot is SST, either with heart rate or RPE. Maybe borrow a power meter to calibrate RPE.

The goal is to build training stress continuously. How many hours a week are you riding now? Can you ride 16 hours or 20 hours a week? Ramp up to that adding 10-20% more volume per week. Doing 2-3 hard SST rides, 2 recovery rides, and one very long ride. Once you've hit max volume, start bringing up the intensity, or extending your SST rides. Make every forth week an easy week, seriously, keep it in the small ring all week.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 17:39
ryanoceros
ryanoceros's picture

I'd like to take this moment and say, Thanks Heath, for figuring this shit out and sharing with us. The more I read your distillations, the more sense this is all making to me.

smiley

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:21
smash
smash's picture

halbritt wrote:
smash wrote:
PS, did the 6x5s last week and it was tough. The first workout I had to do it as 6x3s so that I could finish, but I was able to do it as 6x5s the second workout. Felt like I came out of that week still having made some progress.

First work out was 3-minute long interval at 115-120% of FTP six times, which you were then able to extend to five minutes? Want to make sure I understand correctly.

VO2Max intervals are awesome, but they're also for people that already have some base. You have some base? No real worry about doing 'em, as they'll bump FTP a bit as well. At some point, you'll need to back off and start working on FTP again. They're not as peak inducing as anaerobic efforts.

Yea, I've been doing base work since Jan 1 (and what Friel would call "prep" in December). I still need to do lotsa FTP work though. It's only my second year racing so I want to spend this year really consistently building FTP, with some VO2Max and sprint work mixed in to hopefully bust through plateaus and keep things interesting. I'm also aiming to do 2 fast group rides a week to improve confidence in group skills like drafting, cornering, etc. If I can consistently finish races toward the front of the pack this year I'll be happy.

As for the workouts, I think the issue was that I was pushing past 120% too much the first time. I was using it as a lower mark so I actually ended up spending too much time at an anaerobic level. GC says I spent about 9 minutes in Z5 and 11 in Z6, probably not good if VO2Max was the point. The second workout I toned it down a bit so that I could finish the efforts, and I also was more prepared mentally for how bad it would hurt.

Honestly, that's also a big part of my training this year: really learning what different efforts feel like and having the self control to put the right effort into the right workouts. I think last year I made the classic mistakes of going too hard for easy stuff and not hard enough for the tough stuff. My base was really shaky and I ended up having really inconsistent training efforts later in the season as a result.

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 14:12
tjayk
tjayk's picture

halbritt wrote:

tjayk wrote:
what kind of riding should i be doing?

I love these questions which include no info on training plan, present fitness, hours per week, targeted race dates or anything.

yeah, sorry, i was trying to keep it short. thanks for the suggestions. 20 hrs/week will be doable, although it might be a challenge to find the time.

what i was trying to say is, i haven't really biked much through the winter, but have skied lots and am super fit. my primary goal is to kickass this fall like never before. but, i'm also trying to figure out how to transfer my skiing fitness to the bike without losing it... if i can maintain my fitness through the first race (almost 2 months) i will dominate.

my legs aren't quite ready to ride at the level that the rest of my body can presently handle. thinking i might have to do a little running to get my heart rate up.

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 15:31
halbritt
halbritt's picture

You don't *have* to ride 20 hours. Your skiing probably has your VO2Max well-preserved, which is great. You just need a good base in your legs, still. Work on FTP as I described adding volume, from where I described up to what's available in your schedule. If you can build up to 16-20 hours a week, your fitness will go through the roof.

In lieu of a power meter and lots of training structure, Eddy Merckx said it best when he said, "ride lots."

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 16:12
aerobear
aerobear's picture

Heath, incase you were wondering, Brent finally figured out how to fix the CP graph. Though I don't know well enough to explain how.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Mon, 03/07/2011 - 17:38
halbritt
halbritt's picture

Good to hear.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Mon, 03/07/2011 - 23:45
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

get me into some sort of structured training workouts.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 10:16
halbritt
halbritt's picture

white folks wrote:
get me into some sort of structured training workouts.

Probably best to work on FTP.

Ride as hard as you can for 20 minutes. Pace yourself to keep the same perceived effort. Take a break for a few minutes, then repeat. Do this after a good warmup or work it into. 2-3 hour ride. Also build volume as much as you can. The more hours on the bike, the faster you'll become.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 13:38
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

what kind of recovery in between efforts?

how many days a week?

im on the bike like 15ish hours a week, but mostly just tooling around in a paceline or getting dropped by my faster homies

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 14:50
halbritt
halbritt's picture

white folks wrote:
what kind of recovery in between efforts?

how many days a week?

im on the bike like 15ish hours a week, but mostly just tooling around in a paceline or getting dropped by my faster homies

Recovery is 2-5 minutes. Do that a couple times a week. You should need an easy day after or you're not going hard enough. If you're already putting as much time on the bike as you can (15 hours is quite a bit) then work on increasing your intensity for the time that you have. After a few weeks of that, start doing this 3x a week. If you're doing any racing at all, that should cover any higher intensity work that you need. The first season or two is all about building a bigger aerobic engine.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 15:27
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

ok, will report back in a few weeks.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 18:19
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

so apparently i have no idea what pace to aim for when doing 2x20. i started out hot and made it to 4 minutes before i was tasting blood and yakking. took me almost a half hour to feel normal again. next one i started off a lil easier and made it to 10 minutes and then pretty much the same. my buddy pretty much towed me home.

weird though, i feel fucking awzum now.

i need to get my computer back on my road bike.

also have a HRM if that will help me any.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 01:01
crabbi
crabbi's picture

as heath knows, i did a ftp test yterday. i did it on a trainer and my bike popped out twice. overall, it was 20min with whatever time in between when i was getting my bike back on. my ftp is ~298. i think it would be maybe a little higher if my bike stayed on the trainer. haha. anyways, at my weight, it's okay. standard cat 4 power to weight ratio. i'm now going to work on really slimming down to get my ratio up. i really cannot afford to race anymore till i get a job, so i really can do nothing but train. i really wish i had a power meter at this point.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
if you're here, you probably fucked up somewhere along the line.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 02:23
Tail Hook Lengthener
Tail Hook Lengthener's picture

I snagged a first generation wired PowerTap with head for $350, yesterday. Now I can officially quantify how much I suck.

Sneaky Viking wrote:
when you look back at your life sometimes you see a set of hands on your keyboard and a set of paws, but sometimes there's only a set of paws and that's when Tarckbear was typing for you.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:57
aerobear
aerobear's picture

dougtruck wrote:
so apparently i have no idea what pace to aim for when doing 2x20. i started out hot and made it to 4 minutes before i was tasting blood and yakking. took me almost a half hour to feel normal again. next one i started off a lil easier and made it to 10 minutes and then pretty much the same. my buddy pretty much towed me home.

weird though, i feel fucking awzum now.

i need to get my computer back on my road bike.

also have a HRM if that will help me any.

this is probably all shit advice but i figure, hey, we're all experts on the internet so here goes..

without power it's a lot harder to get cool numbers and graphs, but you can do your best to determine your thresholds based on your HR.
my coach drew out a little graph to best explain how to use HR to think of it as an arch, but it's pretty often simplified into "zones"

I would set my "zone" kinda like this. Determining your own is pretty important since HR varies so significantly from person to person.

zone 1 80-100 bpm .... coasting
zone 2 100-130 .... soft pedalling, cruisin'
zone 3: 130-165 .... slight effort, recovery pace
zone 4: 165-180 .... endurance pace
zone 5: 180+ .... all out sprint or about to get dropped in a climb

my lactic threshold runs pretty paralell to my ideal time trial HR. 175bpms is where I sit over a 20k or similar length time trial.
if i am doing LT intervals, it takes me 1 1/2 to 2 minutes just to get up toward 175bpms. once i go over 175 i'm getting much too close to my anaerobic threshold.

You wanna figure out something similar for a 20 minute effort. Watch your HR closely so you don't go too hard and blow up. Easy into the effort cuz you got a long way to go.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 13:30
halbritt
halbritt's picture

dougtruck wrote:
also have a HRM if that will help me any.

It will. I wouldn't disagree with anything that Amy mentioned. FWIW, TT HR and LT HR should be identical.

Can you log on your HRM? Go as hard as you can for 20 minutes and take the average HR. Otherwise, just experiment. Set a target HR that's easier than you think it needs to be to finish the 20 minute interval. Stick with that target HR.

The 4 minute bit was probably at or slightly above your VO2Max. The 10 minute effort was likely very near the pace you need to be at. Your proclivity to yakk as a result of this effort means that there's plenty of fitness to be gained. Awesome! One fundamental part of becoming a skilled road cyclist is learning to pace yourself. Power meters accelerate this process tremendously, but it's something that you'll inevitably learn.

After you become a little more well-adapted to riding along near your lactate threshold, you'll start to become accustomed to how much burning in your legs is too much and how much is just enough.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 13:47
crabbi
crabbi's picture

Heath, should I base my intervals on the avg HR from my threshold test?

Sneaky Viking wrote:
if you're here, you probably fucked up somewhere along the line.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 14:04
1percenttruck
1percenttruck's picture

I disagree with both of you; zone 5 is not sprinting. It's VO2Max. Sprinting is it's own separate entity. Zone 7 if you will.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:28
halbritt
halbritt's picture

rabbi wrote:
Heath, should I base my intervals on the avg HR from my threshold test?

That depends on the kind of threshold test you did. If you have the log file, look at where your HR is at ~300W. Do your intervals at an HR somewhat below that. So if your HR at 300W is ~165bpm, try doing 20 minute intervals around 160. Your legs should burn a little bit, but not too much.

AndreBear wrote:
I disagree with both of you; zone 5 is not sprinting. It's VO2Max. Sprinting is it's own separate entity. Zone 7 if you will.

You're referring to Coggan's power zones, I believe they're referring to Friel's HR zones. Friel's methods are pretty old in this day and age.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:04
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

ok friday i will try again.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:17
halbritt
halbritt's picture

dougtruck wrote:
ok friday i will try again.

Incidentally, if you have access to a trainer, speed is a great way to give you a relative measure of power output. That is, after it's warmed up, assuming it's a fluid unit.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:32
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

nah all i got is sauvies island, which is about as boring

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 21:57
aerobear
aerobear's picture

sauvie island is flat enough to use speed but you're riding in a circle so you gotta take wind into consideration. it's also pretty much exactly 20k so a good place to time yourself to get a comparison of fitness level (here's a 20k TT at vancouver lake: http://obra.org/events/18589/results#race_286051)

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 01:00
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

i think i pulled a muscle in mygr oin! skateboarding the other day. coppin out on doing intervals this weekend :(

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 11:16
aerobear
aerobear's picture

did some really rough intervals today (40s on, 20 off, 40 on). It was a pretty big fail over all. Usually lost the ability to pedal about 30 seconds in.

Did it with a p-tap though. Held 450+ on a couple but after 4 intervals i was about ready to pass out and took me like 30 minutes of laying down to be able to stand up again, so i called it a day.

Brent bought an older converted powertap for track use, but its wired so I need a sensor and computer to mount up on my track bike.

crowding wrote:
Every time i eat Dick's I just wind up disappointed that I'm not getting In-n-Out.

Thu, 05/12/2011 - 01:19
halbritt
halbritt's picture

aerobear wrote:
Brent bought an older converted powertap for track use, but its wired so I need a sensor and computer to mount up on my track bike.

I been wanting to do this.

If you want to increase your anaerobic work capacity (for track) you might try doing some 10x1 intervals.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Thu, 05/12/2011 - 01:34
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

im using a HRM to gauge effort, whats a good percentage of max to aim for 2x20's?

Thu, 05/12/2011 - 22:28
halbritt
halbritt's picture

dougtruck wrote:
im using a HRM to gauge effort, whats a good percentage of max to aim for 2x20's?

Dunno, really. Can you get a log? Ride all out for 20-30 minutes and use average HR for that period. Otherwise, go out, pick an HR and hold that for 20 minutes. If you're legs aren't burning, you're not going hard enough, Add 5 beats and try it again in two days.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 05:03
yonderboy
yonderboy's picture

Get me into block periodization. There's a lot of conjecture on the Internet, but is there a good book on the subject?

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 11:34
halbritt
halbritt's picture

yonderboy wrote:
Get me into block periodization. There's a lot of conjecture on the Internet, but is there a good book on the subject?

http://www.amazon.com/Cyclists-Training-Bible-Joe-Friel/dp/1934030201/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306428902&sr=8-1

There's that, but it's a bit dated. If you were very serious about periodization, you'd get a power meter and use the performance manager chart in WKO or Golden Cheetah.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 12:56
toddistic
toddistic's picture

AndreBear wrote:
I disagree with both of you; zone 5 is not sprinting. It's VO2Max. Sprinting is it's own separate entity. Zone 7 if you will.

this

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 13:46
yonderboy
yonderboy's picture

halbritt wrote:
yonderboy wrote:
Get me into block periodization. There's a lot of conjecture on the Internet, but is there a good book on the subject?

http://www.amazon.com/Cyclists-Training-Bible-Joe-Friel/dp/1934030201/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306428902&sr=8-1

There's that, but it's a bit dated. If you were very serious about periodization, you'd get a power meter and use the performance manager chart in WKO or Golden Cheetah.

Block periodization is different from the classic periodization that Friel uses. I should just get Bompa's book and go from there.

Maybe when I can afford a power meter, I'll get a copy of WKO+ and Coggan's book.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 00:52
halbritt
halbritt's picture

Eh, just get a copy of Coggan's book, read it and then decide if you want to spend the money on a power meter.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 01:49
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

wired pt's are going so cheap right now

also they have a tent and will loan you a race wheel for the local hilltop crit
might hafta try that shit out

gotta admit im curious

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 10:32
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

today was the last time i try 2x20s based off of HR.

i have at different days done them at 170 and felt like a fucking champ during and then rode the wheels off then next few days
then these last two times i do them at 160 i feel like shit the whole time and felt slow and sluggish for a week.

i think just racing a couple times a week, and lsd is my plan from here on out

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 23:18
halbritt
halbritt's picture

dougtruck wrote:
i think just racing a couple times a week, and lsd is my plan from here on out

Not a bad plan. Ride lots and try to keep the intensity relatively high. Wired PTs are a pretty good option. Also, if you can borrow a wheel, you can calibrate perceived exertion with it.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 14:50
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

i gotta do something.
i do not want to finish off the back in every race of this series.
what is a good workout plan for getting me to be up with the main group by the end of the series?

operation lose 15lbs has been greenlighted

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:34
dmotobear
dmotobear's picture

learn how to meter your effort and conserve energy. One of my teammates doesn't ride more than once a week and hangs in the 1/2/3 crits based on that skill alone.

or, race like you mean it.. be on the front, make some moves, then blow the fuck up. I normally do that for 2-3 weeks then I'm good for the whole race.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:02

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