Framebuildin' part 3

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halbritt
halbritt's picture

What assets do you have to protect? If none, then you don't really need insurance.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Mon, 03/15/2010 - 22:10
turpencat
turpencat's picture

could i make a corp or whatever then be protected coz of that?

johnnyraja wrote:
If you've never done it then yes, it's very surprising.

Mon, 03/15/2010 - 22:32
halbritt
halbritt's picture

LLC, sure, but there's costs associated with that. Do you really have assets you need to protect? Trust fund? Inheritance?

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Mon, 03/15/2010 - 23:11
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

I do. My reputation.

Tue, 03/16/2010 - 01:28
halbritt
halbritt's picture

white folks wrote:
I do. My reputation.

No amount of insurance is going to protect that.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Tue, 03/16/2010 - 04:07
turpencat
turpencat's picture

my college fund is pretty important. an llc is only a few hundos wheras insurance is 1750 min

johnnyraja wrote:
If you've never done it then yes, it's very surprising.

Tue, 03/16/2010 - 08:52
halbritt
halbritt's picture

turpentine wrote:
my college fund is pretty important. an llc is only a few hundos wheras insurance is 1750 min

I seriously doubt there's a way that you could manufacture and sell bicycle frames and also protect your college fund, without having liability insurance.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Tue, 03/16/2010 - 16:58
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

halbritt wrote:
white folks wrote:
I do. My reputation.

No amount of insurance is going to protect that.

word. my though is that insurance coupled with straight up ethics goes a long way to help maintain a rep.

dude from nova schooled me up.

takes years to build a good rep

and one fuck up to tear it down

Tue, 03/16/2010 - 17:12
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

in other news:

my shop will continue to have a home. possibly one block from Ira Ryan's shop.

got some nicer files.

cross spencer is pinned and ready for main triangle braze this weekend

headbadges are at the job shop getting cnc routered and edm'd

basickly its on like donkey kong

Tue, 03/16/2010 - 17:15
halbritt
halbritt's picture

white folks wrote:
halbritt wrote:
white folks wrote:
I do. My reputation.

No amount of insurance is going to protect that.

word. my though is that insurance coupled with straight up ethics goes a long way to help maintain a rep.

dude from nova schooled me up.

takes years to build a good rep

and one fuck up to tear it down

Rep is probably more valuable. To be honest, having product liability insurance would make a lawsuit more likely in the event of an injury. I'm not sure how big Turp's college fund is, but assuming it's less than 100k, it's unlikely a lawyer would ever go after him.

"Twenty-something craftsman looking to make his way in the world sells a few handbuilt bicycle frames and then gets sued into bankruptcy, loses his college fund" is not a headline that anyone wants to be responsible for.

Get a million dollar liability umbrella and it'll be like moths to the flame.

If it were me, I'd build and sell frames until I was making enough money to buy the insurance, but not before. You'll probably figure out at that point whether or not you have a sustainable business.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Tue, 03/16/2010 - 17:19
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

yeah true. i just like bikes. and buildin stuff. I wanna do justice to the craft, not make moneys off it. most dudes i talk to locally (ahearne, ryan, belladonna) tell me there aint no money in it anyways. you just get to build bikes and eat sometimes.

Tue, 03/16/2010 - 17:23
turpencat
turpencat's picture

I was thinking for my next one just use a plasma cutter on flat stock and see how nice i can get that. I don't know anyone with a cnc but my advisor wants me to hook up with the engineering department.

johnnyraja wrote:
If you've never done it then yes, it's very surprising.

Tue, 03/16/2010 - 19:15
halbritt
halbritt's picture

turpentine wrote:
I was thinking for my next one just use a plasma cutter on flat stock and see how nice i can get that. I don't know anyone with a cnc but my advisor wants me to hook up with the engineering department.

Plasma cutter on flat stock for what? You do realize that there's a HAZ for plasma, right?

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Tue, 03/16/2010 - 19:35
turpencat
turpencat's picture

yeah plasma cutter on flat and just hammer it onto the tube for the roundness.
what's wrong with plasma? the room has a good ventilation system.

johnnyraja wrote:
If you've never done it then yes, it's very surprising.

Wed, 03/17/2010 - 09:44
halbritt
halbritt's picture

turpentine wrote:
yeah plasma cutter on flat and just hammer it onto the tube for the roundness.
what's wrong with plasma? the room has a good ventilation system.

Ventilation isn't really the issue. Just saying that plasma has a heat-affected zone. Something to be aware of. I'm still confused about how you plan to use this flat stock?

Also, do you know how to use solidworks?

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Wed, 03/17/2010 - 16:41
turpencat
turpencat's picture

you'll see, i'm not using plasma to cut tubes that would be silly.

also i sorta do. I messed a while ago but not so much in the last few years.

johnnyraja wrote:
If you've never done it then yes, it's very surprising.

Wed, 03/17/2010 - 16:44
VT regularbike
VT regularbike's picture

I believe he's talking about using a plasma cutter & flat stock to make headbadges.

Miguel wrote:
i mean as long as we're spending money, lets just set the wallet on fire ok

Wed, 03/17/2010 - 16:45
dmotobear
dmotobear's picture

CNC plasma could turn out a nice peice.. maybe.. headbadges are pretty small. A guy I work with has a cnc plasma at his house and is always making little signs and shit.

I'd get it laser'd or water jetted somewhere though.

Wed, 03/17/2010 - 17:02
halbritt
halbritt's picture

VT tallbike wrote:
I believe he's talking about using a plasma cutter & flat stock to make headbadges.

That makes a lot more sense to me. If you get fixed on a design, get it water-jet cut.

turpentine wrote:
you'll see, i'm not using plasma to cut tubes that would be silly.

Nah. I've seen some really nice CNC tube coping machines that use a plasma cutter. Hell, I've coped tubes manually with my plasma cutter. It ain't no thing. Not so much of an issue with 4130, but could be with higher-end steel.

BikeCad will create a coping diagram for you, or you could use this to create a PDF:

http://www.metalgeek.com/static/cope.pcgi

Print the results, put it on a tube, trace it, then cut away with your plasma cutter or anything else you like.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Wed, 03/17/2010 - 18:49
turpencat
turpencat's picture

If I could miter with a plasma cutter that would save boat loads of time. I'll try it on some tubes sometime.

johnnyraja wrote:
If you've never done it then yes, it's very surprising.

Wed, 03/17/2010 - 22:11
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

use half your tubing block and the appropriate 3/4 drive socket, smoosh in vise. boom roasted.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 00:00
Whippin Skidz
Whippin Skidz's picture

Can a plasma cutter be precise enough for small detail work like a headbadge? I've only ever used one to cut floorpans out of cars and take roofs off hot rods. Those certainly weren't clean cuts compared to a CNC

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 10:52
halbritt
halbritt's picture

Jim wrote:
Can a plasma cutter be precise enough for small detail work like a headbadge? I've only ever used one to cut floorpans out of cars and take roofs off hot rods. Those certainly weren't clean cuts compared to a CNC

It depends on the exact level of detail you're looking for, but the short answer is, yes. The long answer is that it's really hard. You need to turn the power way, way down and you need a really steady hand or a guide. That's usually the limiting factor. My one is a Hypertherm and has something called "finecut consumables" brochure here:

http://site.weldersource.com/hyperthermfinecutbrochure.pdf

It has some photos of what's possible with good consumables and an X/Y table.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 15:26
Whippin Skidz
Whippin Skidz's picture

halbritt wrote:
Jim wrote:
Can a plasma cutter be precise enough for small detail work like a headbadge? I've only ever used one to cut floorpans out of cars and take roofs off hot rods. Those certainly weren't clean cuts compared to a CNC

It depends on the exact level of detail you're looking for, but the short answer is, yes. The long answer is that it's really hard. You need to turn the power way, way down and you need a really steady hand or a guide. That's usually the limiting factor. My one is a Hypertherm and has something called "finecut consumables" brochure here:

http://site.weldersource.com/hyperthermfinecutbrochure.pdf

It has some photos of what's possible with good consumables and an X/Y table.

Whoa.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:47
turpencat
turpencat's picture

fork blades + mandrel

johnnyraja wrote:
If you've never done it then yes, it's very surprising.

Sat, 03/20/2010 - 00:58
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

what you doing for alignment?

thinking about dropping the coin for a bringheli table

Tue, 03/23/2010 - 13:31
turpencat
turpencat's picture

I have heard such bad things about bringheli's bikes. my lbs used to sell his stuff but they stopped coz sucks. spotty brazing and junk.
I'll post pics and diagrams of jig when I finish it. going to do it probably thurs maybe tomorrow.
It will be based on the designing and building your own frameset wooden jig but with adjustability

johnnyraja wrote:
If you've never done it then yes, it's very surprising.

Tue, 03/23/2010 - 14:47
halbritt
halbritt's picture

white folks wrote:
what you doing for alignment?

thinking about dropping the coin for a bringheli table

Which?

Edit:

Pretty sure this is what I'm going to do:

http://www.sabrosacycles.blogspot.com/

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Tue, 03/23/2010 - 17:06
dmotobear
dmotobear's picture
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 21:47
turpencat
turpencat's picture

that guy needs to work on brazing.

johnnyraja wrote:
If you've never done it then yes, it's very surprising.

Wed, 03/24/2010 - 22:20
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

ugh what a mess

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 00:14
Patch
Patch's picture

He's just some guy(stockholm hipster) messing around, but yeah. I never go in that thread coz nasty.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 01:01
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

heres a lil sumpin to get back on track

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:29
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

and this:

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:30
turpencat
turpencat's picture

can anyone help me find which #'s = which nicholson rifflers? I am trying to order some but the ones that are available I can't find. If somebody could just scan a catalog or something that'd rule.

johnnyraja wrote:
If you've never done it then yes, it's very surprising.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 12:45
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

man i dunno. i have a set from from when I did tool and die work.

prob replace soon.

also need to invest in some nicer needle files.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 12:55
Toast
Toast's picture

so i has a nice crabone fork

but no headtube to put it into

hint hint

hint hint

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 13:42
halbritt
halbritt's picture

white folks wrote:
man i dunno. i have a set from from when I did tool and die work.

prob replace soon.

also need to invest in some nicer needle files.

Bought a cheap set from Harbor Freight. They work well enough and when they break, I don't mind. Cheap enough that I can grind some of the edges smooth when I want to.... For gun stuff.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 16:43
turpencat
turpencat's picture

fork building PART X
AT FIRST IT WAS LIKE

BAM
THEN IT WAS ALL

I'm just gonna ride it like this till I can paint it, then I will clean it up.

johnnyraja wrote:
If you've never done it then yes, it's very surprising.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 19:47
halbritt
halbritt's picture

That's one hell of a fork jig you have there.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Thu, 04/01/2010 - 03:17
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

nice work. thats the kind of genius i enjoy seeing

heres where im stalled at.

trying to get the new shop set up. be next week before i'm rolling again.

also picked up some partz and misc for the finished bike

Thu, 04/01/2010 - 13:01
E-ROCK
E-ROCK's picture

Question for you guys that I might have already asked....don't remember.

I have that Philippe frame sitting in the shed. I want to build it into a porteur rack having awesome spencer and was wondering if the handling would enhance significantly if I had a low trail fork custom made for the spencer.

I could maybe have one made for under or around 200.00.

Or is there a cheaper option? Or is this a dumb question?

Mon, 04/05/2010 - 23:05
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

whats the consensus on frame cutting tools?

about to invest some scrills in tooling

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 12:49
Patch
Patch's picture

E-ROCK wrote:
Question for you guys that I might have already asked....don't remember.

I have that Philippe frame sitting in the shed. I want to build it into a porteur rack having awesome spencer and was wondering if the handling would enhance significantly if I had a low trail fork custom made for the spencer.

I could maybe have one made for under or around 200.00.

Or is there a cheaper option? Or is this a dumb question?

thorn makes 55mm rake forks.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 15:32
halbritt
halbritt's picture

white folks wrote:
whats the consensus on frame cutting tools?

about to invest some scrills in tooling

Like tube mitering business?

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 15:50
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

nah like headtubes, seat tubes, BB threads, fork threads etc..

i saw some VAR stuff for reasonable awhile back

i'd buy used, even though im leery of shit like dull or chipped cutters

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 17:01
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

wish that one dude would have responded about the bringheli

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 17:01
dmotobear
dmotobear's picture

I've been looking at tools all week.. mostly dreaming..

How would these work out compared to the (much) more expensive tools that are available:

http://www.ceeway.com/economy%20workshop%20and%20framebuilding.htm

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 17:11
halbritt
halbritt's picture

white folks wrote:
wish that one dude would have responded about the bringheli

Got a response from Nate, said he would hit the guy up again.

I've been looking at the Cyclus tools. They're cheap. Dougie, I'd not hesitate to buy used as long as the cutters aren't chipped. You can get them sharpened.

http://www.strawberrybicycle.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album03

I've been drooling over the LAN71 stuff:

http://www.strawberrybicycle.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=LAN71

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 17:14
dougtruck
dougtruck's picture

hah yeah i wish.

fuck if i had a lathe and a blanchard grinder the rest could be ordered from any cutting tool supply house.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 17:16

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