Bike parts that exist but you wish didnt.

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GRHebard
GRHebard's picture

walrus wrote:
i think the 11 speed thing is kinda a ridiculous pissing match, like the whole h+son/B43 thing.

completely different atmo

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 03:48
Sneaky Viking
Sneaky Viking's picture

I wish this didn't exist, so I could just go out and get a Shimano one and not feel like it was inferior.

ckd wrote:
I mean, seriously. We're just a bunch of washed up bicycle burnout dipshits.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 11:08
mander
mander's picture

Yeah, fucking schmidt and their hub. The bearings issue might justify it atmo but it's stilll soooooo expensive.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 11:13
robobear
robobear's picture

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 11:14
Shortpants
Shortpants's picture

why do you hate the xx stuff?

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 11:17
hambeki
hambeki's picture

I think you guys are just putting stuff up for the sake of putting it up now. What's wrong with XX?

MoonCat wrote:
All bikes are really just overpriced crosschecks with different geometries.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 11:17
SUPERVEEPS
SUPERVEEPS's picture

-the shifters on older Schwinns that double as a headset spacer
-Rapid Rise
-front derailleurs that default to the largest ring
-Positron
-Biopace/Ovaltech
-those Suntour rear derailleurs with the non-removable pulley wheel
-steel hubs
-loose ball bearings, as in no retainers to keep them from falling all over the shop floor
-GT rear u-brake routing
-Nottingham headsets
-Gripshift
-safety levers with plastic bushings in weird sizes that crumble with age and are impossible to replace
-any non-racing frame with insufficient clearance for fenders, brakes, and 32c tires

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 11:20
robobear
robobear's picture

ever ridden it?

"hey, let's put a thinner, lighter chain on a bike that people are gonna ride through dirt, mud, water and other debris!! i'm sure it'll shift great once a little twig or a blade of grass gets caught in it!! and let's charge $325 for a cassette that's gonna wear out, $500 for a crankset, $265 for a rear der that's gonna get smashed up against rocks, $400 for a brakeset, $300 for shifters and so on...!!!! and let's actually make it an 18 speed since you really can't use the 2 smallest cogs in the small ring (even since we increased crossover gear stability)!!!!!"

completely unnecessary.
that's why i hate it.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 11:27
robobear
robobear's picture

you hate gripshift??!!
explain that one!
sure, its a pain in the ass sometimes to replace a cable cause of the wonky routing, but it's a good lightweight system...and it put sram on the map.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 11:30
Neil_240
Neil_240's picture

Anyone that likes gripshift... GTFO. That shit suck for the woods. Jumping logs and twisting around on tight single track all you do is shift when you don't want to.

also everything SuperVillain said

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 11:38
SUPERVEEPS
SUPERVEEPS's picture

thehappyrobot wrote:
you hate gripshift??!!
explain that one!
sure, its a pain in the ass sometimes to replace a cable cause of the wonky routing, but it's a good lightweight system...and it put sram on the map.

This is the only scenario in which I ever encounter Gripshift, and is reason enough to hope I never have to mess with one again. The knockoff ones are also a pain. Components should be serviceable. Though most of them are still working fine, people will probably be saying the same thing about Shimano brifters in a few years, if they aren't already (coz impossible to rebuild, not cable routing).

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 11:49
robobear
robobear's picture

some t9 and a pick will usually "rebuild" any kind of shifter.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 11:52
SUPERVEEPS
SUPERVEEPS's picture

In best case scenarios, I agree. Sometimes shit is just broken and needs actual parts replaced.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 11:55
robobear
robobear's picture

true true.....but when gripshifts break, they cost $10.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 11:56
SUPERVEEPS
SUPERVEEPS's picture

Tell that to my boss! I can't even convince him that split, dry-rotted cable housing needs replacing.

But really - the problem isn't broken Gripshifts, it's when they need a new shifter cable.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 12:04
Toast
Toast's picture

thehappyrobot wrote:
ever ridden it?

"hey, let's put a thinner, lighter chain on a bike that people are gonna ride through dirt, mud, water and other debris!! i'm sure it'll shift great once a little twig or a blade of grass gets caught in it!! and let's charge $325 for a cassette that's gonna wear out, $500 for a crankset, $265 for a rear der that's gonna get smashed up against rocks, $400 for a brakeset, $300 for shifters and so on...!!!! and let's actually make it an 18 speed since you really can't use the 2 smallest cogs in the small ring (even since we increased crossover gear stability)!!!!!"

completely unnecessary.
that's why i hate it.

i heard a rumor that there are some people who ride bikes for, like, a job, and they get paid to do it so they can get all the nicest things that cost way too much and wear out fast

can someone confirm or deny

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 12:01
waychel

GRHebard wrote:

Some of you guys hate just for the sake of hating. Hold Fast straps are better than MKS clips for riding in boots and bulky shoes. Not all of us ride around in size 7 slip-on Vans.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 12:01
VT regularbike
VT regularbike's picture

The cheap plastic NDS BB cartridge cups.
That stupid felt wrench that attaches to water bottle bosses.

Miguel wrote:
i mean as long as we're spending money, lets just set the wallet on fire ok

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 12:05
robobear
robobear's picture

beernuts tool????!!!!

you can't hate that!!!!!!!

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 12:07
SUPERVEEPS
SUPERVEEPS's picture

waychel wrote:
GRHebard wrote:

Some of you guys hate just for the sake of hating. Hold Fast straps are better than MKS clips for riding in boots and bulky shoes. Not all of us ride around in size 7 slip-on Vans.

I'd probably try out a pair if they weren't $60.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 12:09
robobear
robobear's picture

since we're hating on tools, i gotta hate the only bad thing that surly ever made, atmo:
the jethro tule...absolutely no leverage on this little guy.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 12:12
hambeki
hambeki's picture

thehappyrobot wrote:
ever ridden it?

"hey, let's put a thinner, lighter chain on a bike that people are gonna ride through dirt, mud, water and other debris!! i'm sure it'll shift great once a little twig or a blade of grass gets caught in it!! and let's charge $325 for a cassette that's gonna wear out, $500 for a crankset, $265 for a rear der that's gonna get smashed up against rocks, $400 for a brakeset, $300 for shifters and so on...!!!! and let's actually make it an 18 speed since you really can't use the 2 smallest cogs in the small ring (even since we increased crossover gear stability)!!!!!"

completely unnecessary.
that's why i hate it.

The cross chaining issue sounds annoying, but the rest of it doesn't sound bad. It's a high end groupset, so of course it's going to cost a lot. And I've run 10sp in the mud before and honestly haven't had any issues that I wouldn't have had with 9sp.

MoonCat wrote:
All bikes are really just overpriced crosschecks with different geometries.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 12:33
hambeki
hambeki's picture

The Jethro Tule is definitely garbage, though.

MoonCat wrote:
All bikes are really just overpriced crosschecks with different geometries.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 12:33
robobear
robobear's picture

completely off topic, but did anyone see the 62cm 26" wheeled version of the lht on surly's webpage??!!
this is most goofy looking (although probably pretty stable and functional) bike i think i've ever seen.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 12:40
Endpoint
Endpoint's picture

XX is kindof awesome at first but really kindof dumb.

The whole group weighs 2285 grams... which IS light... but for a few hundred bucks less I can build this group....

Formula R1 brakes
FifteenG Crank
X-0 triggers
X-0 Rear derailleur
XTR front derailleur
XTR cassette
KMC X9 chain

Weight is 1 gram less. For the $$$ I saved I could get a 2x9 set of rings from Rotor that will work perfectly with that FifteenG crank.

When I wear out a cassette I'll save $100 replacing it over xx
When I wear out a chain I'll save $20 replacing it over xx
If I stuff a rear derailleur I can replace it on the cheap with an x-7 if I am strapped for cash.

XX is cool if you are going to run the whole group and want a fully integrated system but I'll take the flexibility of 9 speed at no weight penalty if you don't mind.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 14:14
deadforkinglast
deadforkinglast's picture

thehappyrobot wrote:
you hate gripshift??!!
explain that one!
sure, its a pain in the ass sometimes to replace a cable cause of the wonky routing, but it's a good lightweight system...and it put sram on the map.

I'm sorry, but I think this renders your opinion on XX invalid. Gripshift is fine for riding on bike paths, but once you take it out on a trail, you're shifting all over the place every time you drop off of something, hop over something, hit a hardpacked washboard-y section or do anything fun. Never again.

Plus, I have to work on them all the time, since they are spec'd on just about every inexpensive mountain and "mountain" bike made today. They all seem to be made really cheaply. Just about every single piece inside of them is plastic, so they never last long. If someone brings in a bike with gripshifts to the co-op I work at for a tune-up, I usually include an inexpensive new gripshift in my price estimate if their shifters don't seem perfect right off the bat. If they end up not needing it, they're stoked not to have to pay for it, but enough of them are un-fixable that it's easier than calling them explain to why have to pay $15-25 more than I estimated. I don't know how many hours I've wasted trying to coerce broken gripshifts into working smoothly and consistently.

I tried taking one apart once...never again. Best thing to try, I've found, is White Lightning and then the air compressor. If that doesn't do it, there's often not a lot else that can be done to them, which is fucking frustrating.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 14:19
robobear
robobear's picture

9speed already has it's fair share of problems with shifting while dirt/grit/mud/leaves/twigs gets caught in the drivetrain.
why complicate it even more with a thinner chain and less clearance between cogs?

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 14:19
mailer
mailer's picture

thehappyrobot wrote:
completely off topic, but did anyone see the 62cm 26" wheeled version of the lht on surly's webpage??!!
this is most goofy looking (although probably pretty stable and functional) bike i think i've ever seen.

it looks like one of those weird japanese bikes with 20" wheels.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 14:22
robobear
robobear's picture

deadforkinglast wrote:
thehappyrobot wrote:
you hate gripshift??!!
explain that one!
sure, its a pain in the ass sometimes to replace a cable cause of the wonky routing, but it's a good lightweight system...and it put sram on the map.

I'm sorry, but I think this renders your opinion on XX invalid. Gripshift is fine for riding on bike paths, but once you take it out on a trail, you're shifting all over the place every time you drop off of something, hop over something, hit a hardpacked washboard-y section or do anything fun. Never again.

Plus, I have to work on them all the time, since they are spec'd on just about every inexpensive mountain and "mountain" bike made today. They all seem to be made really cheaply. Just about every single piece inside of them is plastic, so they never last long. If someone brings in a bike with gripshifts to the co-op I work at for a tune-up, I usually include an inexpensive new gripshift in my price estimate if their shifters don't seem perfect right off the bat. If they end up not needing it, they're stoked not to have to pay for it, but enough of them are un-fixable that it's easier than calling them explain to why have to pay $15-25 more than I estimated. I don't know how many hours I've wasted trying to coerce broken gripshifts into working smoothly and consistently.

I tried taking one apart once...never again. Best thing to try, I've found, is White Lightning and then the air compressor. If that doesn't do it, there's often not a lot else that can be done to them, which is fucking frustrating.

fair enough.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 14:25
hambeki
hambeki's picture

thehappyrobot wrote:
9speed already has it's fair share of problems with shifting while dirt/grit/mud/leaves/twigs gets caught in the drivetrain.
why complicate it even more with a thinner chain and less clearance between cogs?

If you're going to think in that manor, why don't we just knock back to 5sp?

Like I said before, a lot of CX'ers run 10sp in the muck/mud/sand/whatever. I've run it before and my opinion is that it doesn't jam up any worse than 9sp does. I do run 9sp on my bike now, but that's just because it's cheaper.

MoonCat wrote:
All bikes are really just overpriced crosschecks with different geometries.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 14:27
Matthew Trujillo

would ridee

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 14:28
Patch
Patch's picture

http://www.velo-orange.com/psfrcaha.html
this piece of shit cable hanger. It's not rounded correctly so that even with a brand new length of housing innards and a brand new cable it takes a good 10-20 minutes of monkeying to get that shit threaded. I'd tell VO to step their game up, but it needs to peel itself off the pavement first.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 14:32
robobear
robobear's picture

biggest pos ever:

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 14:42
robobear
robobear's picture

crushkilldestroy wrote:

If you're going to think in that manor, why don't we just knock back to 5sp?

or better yet, run single speed!

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 14:47
Whippin Skidz
Whippin Skidz's picture

mailer wrote:
thehappyrobot wrote:
completely off topic, but did anyone see the 62cm 26" wheeled version of the lht on surly's webpage??!!
this is most goofy looking (although probably pretty stable and functional) bike i think i've ever seen.

it looks like one of those weird japanese bikes with 20" wheels.

Would ride, especially with mustache bars.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 14:51
robobear
robobear's picture

54cm and below has always been available with 26" wheels, but now every size is available with 26".....

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 14:54
halbritt
halbritt's picture

thehappyrobot wrote:
54cm and below has always been available with 26" wheels, but now every size is available with 26".....

26" wheels for plenty of clearance for fat tires, fenders, and no toe overlap. That bike is perfect for it's intended purpose, which is loaded touring.

Gripshift is an abomination, maybe it's cool for a cruiser.

XX is fine for what it is, an XC racing group, not a general purpose MTB group. "blah blah blah mud and leaves and twigs" I don't see much of this on cross-country courses. Braden is right, though, a lighter more durable group could be put together.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 15:44
robobear
robobear's picture

halbritt wrote:
"blah blah blah mud and leaves and twigs" I don't see much of this on cross-country courses.

seriously?!

...and not to plug my own bike, but this shot was taken on a local xc race course on sunday:

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 16:03
DBR
DBR's picture

halbritt wrote:
thehappyrobot wrote:
54cm and below has always been available with 26" wheels, but now every size is available with 26".....

26" wheels for plenty of clearance for fat tires, fenders, and no toe overlap. That bike is perfect for it's intended purpose, which is loaded touring.

also any tour in Africa/Middle East/parts of Asia you're gonna find way more 26" tires along the way. maybe same in south america?

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 16:06
DBR
DBR's picture

thehappyrobot wrote:
biggest pos ever:

that a tricross fork?

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 16:07
anomaly

walrus wrote:


this i'm a bit unsure about. i think the 11 speed thing is kinda a ridiculous pissing match, like the whole h+son/B43 thing. but i'm not one to discourage technical advances, so whatever.

i will say though, i kinda like the hold fast straps. they seem like a nice mix of powergrips and clip/strap setups. for easy around town riding, BMX pedals can't be beat, and hold fast straps allow you to put foot retention on them and wear giant clunky skate shoes.

Having ridden 11 speed Campy, it is fucking amazing. It blows SRAM/Shimano (sans Di2) out of the water.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 16:11
robobear
robobear's picture

Der Blaue Reiter wrote:
halbritt wrote:
thehappyrobot wrote:
54cm and below has always been available with 26" wheels, but now every size is available with 26".....

26" wheels for plenty of clearance for fat tires, fenders, and no toe overlap. That bike is perfect for it's intended purpose, which is loaded touring.

also any tour in Africa/Middle East/parts of Asia you're gonna find way more 26" tires along the way. maybe same in south america?

agreed. never said it was a bad idea....just on a huge frame it looks goofy as fuck.
although i always liked the bleriot 650b tourer.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 16:11
robobear
robobear's picture

Der Blaue Reiter wrote:
thehappyrobot wrote:
biggest pos ever:

that a tricross fork?

indeed.
a 5lb piece of shit.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 16:12
GRHebard
GRHebard's picture

thehappyrobot wrote:
ever ridden it?

"hey, let's put a thinner, lighter chain on a bike that people are gonna ride through dirt, mud, water and other debris!! i'm sure it'll shift great once a little twig or a blade of grass gets caught in it!! and let's charge $325 for a cassette that's gonna wear out, $500 for a crankset, $265 for a rear der that's gonna get smashed up against rocks, $400 for a brakeset, $300 for shifters and so on...!!!! and let's actually make it an 18 speed since you really can't use the 2 smallest cogs in the small ring (even since we increased crossover gear stability)!!!!!"

completely unnecessary.
that's why i hate it.

the cassette is one piece CNC'ed. i picked one up the other day.
its so damn light

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 16:16
robobear
robobear's picture

it better be light for $300

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 16:22
halbritt
halbritt's picture

thehappyrobot wrote:
halbritt wrote:
"blah blah blah mud and leaves and twigs" I don't see much of this on cross-country courses.

seriously?!

...and not to plug my own bike, but this shot was taken on a local xc race course on sunday:

Seriously. I mean, I'm pulling this out of my ass, but I've never seen footage of a pro XC race that wasn't on well-groomed trails. This assumes we agree that XX was meant for pro XC racing. I've seen courses for weekend warriors that run through all kinds of crazy shit.

...shift like jesus making one set of footprints in the sand in your time of need

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 16:44
hambeki
hambeki's picture

Record cassettes are around that much. Super Record cassettes are closer to $400, IIRC.

Baller status comes at a cost.

MoonCat wrote:
All bikes are really just overpriced crosschecks with different geometries.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 16:36
walrus
walrus's picture

anomaly wrote:
Having ridden 11 speed Campy, it is fucking amazing. It blows SRAM/Shimano (sans Di2) out of the water.

i don't doubt that it works beautifully. i just think adding the 11th speed is masturbatory engineering/marketing.

i will probably never touch Di2 ever. I appreciate the innovation, i just prefer the feel of something mechanical that is well engineered and tuned.

this is all atmo. i don't mind either of them. in fact, i encourage stuff like this. but you probably won't be seeing them on my bikes. mostly because i'm poor.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:03
tjayk
tjayk's picture

thehappyrobot wrote:
Der Blaue Reiter wrote:
thehappyrobot wrote:
biggest pos ever:

that a tricross fork?

indeed.
a 5lb piece of shit.

it must suck having a cross fork that can fit a 2.2" tire.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:19
robobear
robobear's picture

you've obviously never ridden one of those.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:02

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